Controlling pigment removal using Mirror Glaze #7 - 1953 MG

[TMQ]

JohnnyO...

Keep it simple. Do the #7 often. As much as 6 - 8 times. (since yours is thin--rub gently. Wipe off gently, repeat 24 hours apart. Stop if megs #7 wipes off wet).

Then get Meguire's yellow wax....Seal it.

Done....

Tom

[2black1s]

JohnnyO...

Keep it simple. Do the #7 often. As much as 6 - 8 times. (since yours is thin--rub gently. Wipe off gently, repeat 24 hours apart. Stop if megs #7 wipes off wet).

Then get Meguire's yellow wax....Seal it.

Done....

Tom

Tom, johnnyO, and BrokenHero

I don't think the yellow wax is a good choice in this situation. You are talking #26, right?

My reasoning... The #26 dries to a cloudy haze. Anything that dries to a cloudy haze (#26, or other traditional LSPs) will penetrate the porous/irregular finish and cloud it up as it dries. I've experienced this over and over on old compromised paint over the years.

To illustrate this point, I just applied a thin coat of #26 and Ultimate Wax to my benchtop that is finished with an automotive acrylic enamel (semi-gloss black). The #26 is on the right, the Ultimate on the left. Both have flashed for about 10-15 minutes in the photo. Notice how white, cloudy, hazy the #26 is? That is what happens when it penetrates the compromised paint and then dries. Now that haziness is embedded into the compromised paint and the only way to get rid of it is to re-saturate the area.

To the left of the #26 is the Ultimate Wax. Notice how much clearer the Ultimate is than the #26? That is why I recommended that particular product as something to try. I don't think it will produce the same level of cloudiness as I'd expect of the #26 or most other LSPs. Will it work ultimately (no pun intended)? I don't know. But I think it has a much better chance than anything that dries to a chalky appearing haze.



The multiple applications of #7 is a good recommendation but it gets expensive and time consuming. That's where my "protectant" recommendation comes into play. It's cheap, easy, and takes no more time than a quick detailer would take if performed often. Once the paint is saturated with the #7, the protectant is a good way to maintain it and keep the paint saturated.

Regardless of how you process old paint in this condition, it is never done. Paint in this condition takes constant care and maintenance. For me, the "protectant" is a very efficient way to provide that on-going care.

Of course, all of my suggestions are based on my own logic and experience. Yours may differ. And keep in mind, none of the products suggested by anyone in these threads are, or were, designed for the paint conditions discussed here. It's all an experiment at this point.

[johnnyO]

JohnnyO...

Keep it simple. Do the #7 often. As much as 6 - 8 times. (since yours is thin--rub gently. Wipe off gently, repeat 24 hours apart. Stop if megs #7 wipes off wet).

Then get Meguire's yellow wax....Seal it.

Done....

Tom

As far as saturating the paint, have YOU found that after multiple applications of #7 with a clean towel that the amount of pigment transferring to the towel becomes less with each layer? (Assuming there is still substantial color on the car.) Mike talks about reusing the application towel because it filters the pigment removed, but in my case I think it spreads the loose stuff around.

When I formerly used a similar Griot's product, the paint absorbed so much that I would just spread it with a gloved hand. I was not doing the overnight soak at the time, but I'm now learning from you and others that it really helps.

[DUBL0WS6]

An old time trick was to use kerosene on single stage paint. I'm not sure how long that would last. Fluid film is lanolin and I'm sure it would leave a sticky film. Not good on the top side but beneficial on the underside.

[TMQ]

I use a clean Terry cloth towel each time.

In your case, you probably need to stop after a couple 24 hour soaks. I don't know if the Griots sealant used over the years made the paint different, softer or unstable. I don't know.

Maybe just go straight to the wax Mike gave you. Let us know if that helps or not.

Your MG paint is something I have not tried and I am following your process.

Tom

[2black1s]

An old time trick was to use kerosene on single stage paint. I'm not sure how long that would last. Fluid film is lanolin and I'm sure it would leave a sticky film. Not good on the top side but beneficial on the underside.

I vaguely remember kerosene as a car care product being mentioned somewhere on this forum and if I recall correctly it was not well received. In most cases that is justifiably so.

But in this case I think it's a very reasonable recommendation. The oils in the kerosene would penetrate, protect, and brighten what is left of the original paint in a similar way to my "protectant" recommendation, although I don't think it would last as long.

I've never used kerosene on any car of mine but I definitely remember my father telling me about it... Primarily as a rust preventative during the Midwestern winters.

[johnnyO]

My reasoning... The #26 dries to a cloudy haze. Anything that dries to a cloudy haze (#26, or other traditional LSPs) will penetrate the porous/irregular finish and cloud it up as it dries. I've experienced this over and over on old compromised paint over the years.

To illustrate this point, I just applied a thin coat of #26 and Ultimate Wax to my benchtop that is finished with an automotive acrylic enamel (semi-gloss black). The #26 is on the right, the Ultimate on the left. Both have flashed for about 10-15 minutes in the photo. Notice how white, cloudy, hazy the #26 is? That is what happens when it penetrates the compromised paint and then dries. Now that haziness is embedded into the compromised paint and the only way to get rid of it is to re-saturate the area.

To the left of the #26 is the Ultimate Wax. Notice how much clearer the Ultimate is than the #26? That is why I recommended that particular product as something to try. I don't think it will produce the same level of cloudiness as I'd expect of the #26 or most other LSPs. Will it work ultimately (no pun intended)? I don't know. But I think it has a much better chance than anything that dries to a chalky appearing haze.

I'm starting to think Cloudy Haze from LSP over #7 and compromised paint would be a good topic for Mike to address. You show a preference for Ultimate Wax, so I wonder what ingredients in an LSP are prone to ghosting or hazing over single stage. My guess is that manufacturers only care how their product performs on clear cloats sice that's where their profit centers are focused. Any benefits to vintage car owners would be secondary.

Eastwood has a Patina Preserver product that is parafin based spray that needs masking and frequent reapplication. Probably better suited for a museum car not a driver.

I tried a small test on my car with Fluid Film, let it dry for a few hours then buffed it off. There is barely any change in appearance, but it is clear and probably offers an invisible layer of protection. A real test would be to treat several panels with sealants and LSP options, then subject them to a water spray for hours. This would be a great science fair project for a student! BUT, as this forum attests, the stability, age and type of single stage makes all the difference.

Another matter regarding LSP for vintage car owners with compromised paint is whether enhanced appearance or protection from the elements is a priority.

I still like the idea of sealing with #20 as it has some cleaners to remove stray pigment left on top from #7 feeding. Are there any proven DA techniques for sealing in the sealant? Then would you hand apply some after every couple hundred miles of road use? Or maybe a light coat of #7? Lots to consider.... Gotta go now and do more Comet and #7.

Thanks for all the input.

John

[2black1s]

Like I said earlier... "It's all an experiment at this point".

While I haven't worked with paint in this condition in a long time, my previous experimenting with such is where my "protectant" suggestion comes from. At the time, I found the protectant to provide the best results with the least amount of effort of everything I tried.

I also found that anything that dries to a cloudy haze should be avoided.

It would be nice if I had something in your condition to play with now. While my baseline to start would be #7 and various protectants, I MIGHT try some other products as a sealer over the #7/protectant, although my inclination is that the "protectant" applied regularly would suffice for my own expectations.

Of the things I might try, one that comes to mind is a clear acrylic liquid floor coating. I remember using that on tires well before there were any tire dressings... not even Armor-All was around yet. Another is Meguiar's Ultimate Black Trim Restorer.

While these may not provide the desired result, it's this kind of thinking outside of the norm where you might find the product/process that meets your expectations. Your own imagination, logic, and willingness to try various approaches and products, even those outside of the prevailing auto care world, are the key. Try something, anything that meets your "logic" sense on a small inconspicuous spot and see what it does.

Keep in mind, most major car care product manufacturers don't have products designed specifically for these situations. I don't think the market is big enough and there could be too many liability issues related to consumer "unrealistic" expectations and usage.

I've pretty much exhausted all I have to offer. But if anything else comes to mind I'll be sure to let you know.

[DUBL0WS6]

If you are using number 7 and want to top it, I'd stay in the Meguiars line. Their products contain mineral oils and are compatible. Other product lines might work different and as the number 7 oils sweat in the sun might make for blotchiness. Number 26 might be a good choice.

[Mike Phillips]

I'm starting to think Cloudy Haze from LSP over #7 and compromised paint would be a good topic for Mike to address.

My guess is - it's the solvents in any liquid or paste wax or synthetic sealant that are dulling down the results created by the #7.

What this is showing you is how SENSITIVE the paint is when it is this OLD, fragile and also unstable.

I still like the idea of sealing with #20 as it has some cleaners to remove stray pigment left on top from #7 feeding.

If the #20 is leaving an acceptable finish - all things considered - I would go with it.

Are there any proven DA techniques for sealing in the sealant? Then would you hand apply some after every couple hundred miles of road use?

Or maybe a light coat of #7?

Lots to consider....

If the #20 is leaving an acceptable finish, then after all your #7 work, apply the #20, allow it to fully dry, wipe it off and then stick a fork in this project and call it done.

Periodically, try just re-applying the #20 and if this restores the crisp look previously achieved then go with it. IF not - you're back to #7


I truly think that most of the issues you're dealing with are (in no particular order),

• Age of paint.
• Quality of paint when new and now.
• Frailty of paint.
• Unstable pigments in what's left of the resin.

You simply don't have much to work with but myself and I'm sure everyone else reading this thread and following along appreciate all your hard work and passion. And I'm also confident the work you've shared here and especially the updates and results will help others that find this thread in the future working on something similar.