I'm polishing a '63 Continental this weekend - could use some tips! [first post]

[crg001]

I'm polishing a '63 Continental this weekend - could use some tips! [first post]



Hi Mike and everyone on AGO!

Long time lurker on these forums, first time poster. I've been learning a ton from reading articles and forum posts and have been putting them to what I believe are really excellent results. I've been doing more and more of other people's vehicles and I feel I'm really getting great results polishing using a DA. However, single stage paint is still new to me and one of my friends is trusting me to polish his 1963 Lincoln Continental.

This car has definitely been repainted at some point in it's life with a single stage, and it's not the best quality respray. My friend believes it was done some time in the '90s. Another friend did a test spot on the trunk to see what results they could get using a 15mm DA and foam pads with (a non AG) polish and compound. Here's some pics of the vehicle and the aforementioned test panel. The results they got on the trunk is what he would like to see over the entire vehicle, and I believe I can do that or better.




Products I will be using are a Griot's G9, and my assortment of pads include 5+ each of B&S Uro-Fiber and yellow Uro-Tec, orange and yellow Griot's Boss, and green B&S flat pads. My polishes I plan to use are 3D ACA 500 with Uro Fiber or orange pads for the initial cut and then finish with 3D Speed (and top with 3D Express Wax) on the green or yellow pads, but first I will perform my own test spots. I also have Griot's Correcting Cream and 3D ACA 520 if the ACA 500 is too aggressive. I realize I could just one-step it with Speed, and I will try a test spot doing so, but my expectation is that it will not cut through the oxidation and imperfections well enough, as there are some deeper scratches and swirls in the paint.



My plan is to waterless wash it then clay before beginning.

I have some concerns about the paint quality around some spots so I plan to tape off the rough areas with delicate painter's tape and avoid them. See pics below.





There's also a small bubble on the hood that feels hard to the touch. I'm not sure if this is a thick glob of overspray paint or an actual air bubble underneath the paint and I'm not sure what to do about that. It crossed my mind to sand it down but I'd prefer not to overly abrade this paint.




I've read the articles about doing a Meguiar's #7 restoration on old single stage paints including this one using 3D AAT products,

The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints

How to restore a Barn Find - 1969 Ford Thunderbird - #7 Rub Out + FLEX = 3D products)

But time with the vehicle will be limited and this resprayed paint appears to be very thick.

Should I be concerned about starting with 3D ACA 500 compound and microfiber or orange pad without doing a #7 wipe down initially? Would it be worth the time to wipe on some #7 over the entire vehicle and then immediately wipe it off, and begin the correction process?

I'm a little nervous about this one, but I've never been so excited to polish a car before!

Thanks!

-Colin

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Colin,

Welcome to AGO!

Cool car to polish out.


After any of my detailing classes, like this one this last weekend

Pictures: 2021 Boat Detailing Class - SOLD OUT!


The Boss gives me a couple of days off to recoup, recharge and take care of life.


I'll be back in the office and will reply in-depth tomorrow.

[crg001]

Thank you, Mike! I look forward to your reply!

[2black1s]

I'll let Mike give you his take on the polishing aspect but I can share a little on the paint defects you mention.

The area around what I believe is the hood ornament and the antenna where the paint is peeling is probably the result of:
- Not removing the trim during the paint prep
- Not sanding the area right up to the edge

This is a very common defect in low to mid range paint jobs. Removing all trim is the right way... But it adds quite a bit of cost to the job and aside from specialty shops most production paint shops simply mask the trim. Then to compound the problem it is a time consuming and tedious hand operation to sand right to the edge. Again most production shops simply don't take that time. They DA sand as best they can and call it good enough. As you can see, it's not good enough.

That said, I don't think you have a lot to worry about polishing around those areas. The paint that has lost adhesion and is peeling has most likely reached the boundary of the poor sanding and it's unlikely that it will continue peeling much farther.

What I might do if I were in your shoes is chip away the peeling paint by carefully probing with a single edge razor blade and then do a brush touch up of those areas.

As for the blob on the hood, that's a crapshoot trying to determine what it might be. But if it feels solid then it's not a air bubble under the paint. If that were the case you could compress it and it probably would have chipped away by now. It could be a solid drop of paint or it could be corrosion forming beneath the paint. It's really hard to tell from the pic. I'd probably do a little razor blade probing there too.

Have fun... That's a cool car to be working on.

[fly07sti]

The advice that I give you is to work clean. Don’t do too many section passes with your cutting stage. 2-3 passes and clean out your pads with a brush or even better, compressed air after every section. The pads lid of with residue very quickly. The more pads the better. That’s a lot of real estate on that car, so don’t overthink it. Just focus on your technique and working clean and enjoy turning that paint from matte to gloss.

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Mike and everyone on AGO!

Long time lurker on these forums, first time poster.

Thanks for joining!

I've been learning a ton from reading articles and forum posts and have been putting them to what I believe are really excellent results. I've been doing more and more of other people's vehicles and I feel I'm really getting great results polishing using a DA. However, single stage paint is still new to me and one of my friends is trusting me to polish his 1963 Lincoln Continental.

Single stage is no big deal, you'll end up treating it like any other paint. There are a few other considerations but nothing out of the realm of what you can already do.

This car has definitely been repainted at some point in it's life with a single stage, and it's not the best quality respray. My friend believes it was done some time in the '90s. Another friend did a test spot on the trunk to see what results they could get using a 15mm DA and foam pads with (a non AG) polish and compound. Here's some pics of the vehicle and the aforementioned test panel. The results they got on the trunk is what he would like to see over the entire vehicle, and I believe I can do that or better.

Before and After looks great!

Products I will be using are a Griot's G9, and my assortment of pads include 5+ each of B&S Uro-Fiber and yellow Uro-Tec, orange and yellow Griot's Boss, and green B&S flat pads.

My guess is ANY FIBER pad will cut great but also leave micro-marring in the paint. That's what fibers do to soft paint and except for white single stage paint, pretty much all other colors of single stage paint will be considered soft.

See my article here,

Fibers are a form of abrasive - Foam Pads vs Microfiber Pads by Mike Phillips




And here's a more recent article where I think the pictures tell the story.

Foam vs Fiber - Car Detailing by Hand or Machine

My polishes I plan to use are 3D ACA 500 with Uro Fiber or orange pads for the initial cut and then finish with 3D Speed (and top with 3D Express Wax) on the green or yellow pads, but first I will perform my own test spots.

My guess is the above process will work great. BUT - be sure to do the Test Spot and inspect the results from the microfiber pad closely. You may be able to get the same correction results using a foam cutting pad and avoid micro-marring the paint. Only testing will show.

By the way, 3D makes GREAT abrasive technology. Here's my article on this topic. I talk more about this topic than any other related topic to car detailing.


Abrasive Technology - THE most important factor when it comes to polishing paint

I also have Griot's Correcting Cream and 3D ACA 520 if the ACA 500 is too aggressive. I realize I could just one-step it with Speed, and I will try a test spot doing so, but my expectation is that it will not cut through the oxidation and imperfections well enough, as there are some deeper scratches and swirls in the paint.

3D Speed is an amazing one-step product. If it were me, I would actually test using the 3D Speed First.

Sometimes I 2-step a car using a one-step product. I make the correction step using a foam cutting pad and follow with the same product only now using a foam polishing pad. It just depends on what I'm trying to do and also what I'm being paid. But when it comes to classics like this - I will tend to do more work than I'm being paid as it's in my nature. I appreciate classics, muscle cars and streetrods, modern cars are like Bic Lighters - once they are empty you throw them away or trade them in on the next Bic Lighter. For this reason, it's hard to be passionate about [most] modern cars.

My plan is to waterless wash it then clay before beginning.

I have some concerns about the paint quality around some spots so I plan to tape off the rough areas with delicate painter's tape and avoid them. See pics below.

I would take John aka 2black1s advice for the chipping and peeling paint. With cars like this - it simply is what it is. Do your best, educate your customer and move on.

There's also a small bubble on the hood that feels hard to the touch. I'm not sure if this is a thick glob of overspray paint or an actual air bubble underneath the paint and I'm not sure what to do about that. It crossed my mind to sand it down but I'd prefer not to overly abrade this paint.

If it were me? I'd carefully machine buff all around it and then lightly buff over it and call it good. Don't turn a mole hill into a mountain.

I've read the articles about doing a Meguiar's #7 restoration on old single stage paints (including this one using 3D AAT products

The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints

How to restore a Barn Find - 1969 Ford Thunderbird - #7 Rub Out + FLEX = 3D products),

but time with the vehicle will be limited and this resprayed paint appears to be very thick. Should I be concerned about starting with 3D ACA 500 compound and microfiber or orange pad without doing a #7 wipe down initially? Would it be worth the time to wipe on some #7 over the entire vehicle and then immediately wipe it off, and begin the correction process?

I'm a little nervous about this one, but I've never been so excited to polish a car before!

Thanks!

-Colin

My how-to articles for #7 are mostly for original and antique single stage paints. The paint on a car from 1990 would qualify as antique by most car guys standards, which is usually 20 or 25 years old.


From the look of the results on the trunk lid, if it were me and time was limited, I would test out the 3D Speed with a foam cutting pad. See what you get. A foam cutting pad can leave marring in and of itself so if you use a foam cutting pad, inspect for marring. You could always cut with fiber and re-polish with foam using the 3D Speed instead of a dedicated compound. The cool benefit to 3D Speed is great performance and easy wipe-off.


Just do some testing...

[Mike Phillips]

One more...


I don't recommend this technique for everyone, but it does work.


The COMET Technique by Mike Phillips - 1965 Cadillac - Original Single Stage Paint - Slam job by Mike Phillips


The COMET Technique for oxidized single stage paint



NOTE: The COMET technique is ONLY for oxidized SINGLE STAGE paint.

Do no try this on a modern clearcoat paint you will likely scour the finish.


Be sure to read the entire article and towards the end, as in my norm - I took a picture and shared what I used to buff out the car including HOW MANY PADS WERE USED.

Most people don't use enough pads when using foam pads to do correction work or when using an AIO

[Mike Phillips]

One more...

This last September, we had a RECORD BREAKING class for all kinds of new records. One of the records we broke was how many cars detailed over 3 days. For the September class,

17 cars detailed in 3 days!



Another record we broke was this class was able to detail 3 cars with single stage paint and 2 of the cars had the ORIGINAL paint. The students dug it.

Here's a dedicated article from that class besides the pictures and comments write-up.


1968 Cadillac Original Paint Detailing Class - September 2020


Here's the class using COMET during the Prep Wash.

Find any other class that is photo-documented showing this technique? Bueller?










Final results...






For everyone that will read this into the future, (I always type for the future, not the moment), PLEASE read the entire write-up before using the Comet Technique. There's a lot more involved and this class was under my direction and supervision the entire time. I point this out because I've been there and done this a number of times with single stage paint. It's not for the faint of heart.

1968 Cadillac Original Paint Detailing Class - September 2020

[Mike Phillips]

More...

Also just to note- we MACHINE scrubbed the vinyl top with Comet too....











And here's the link to this photo-documented record breaking class.


Pictures: 2020 September 3-Day Detailing Bootcamp Class

[crg001]

I'll let Mike give you his take on the polishing aspect but I can share a little on the paint defects you mention.

The area around what I believe is the hood ornament and the antenna where the paint is peeling is probably the result of:
- Not removing the trim during the paint prep
- Not sanding the area right up to the edge

This is a very common defect in low to mid range paint jobs. Removing all trim is the right way... But it adds quite a bit of cost to the job and aside from specialty shops most production paint shops simply mask the trim. Then to compound the problem it is a time consuming and tedious hand operation to sand right to the edge. Again most production shops simply don't take that time. They DA sand as best they can and call it good enough. As you can see, it's not good enough.

That said, I don't think you have a lot to worry about polishing around those areas. The paint that has lost adhesion and is peeling has most likely reached the boundary of the poor sanding and it's unlikely that it will continue peeling much farther.

What I might do if I were in your shoes is chip away the peeling paint by carefully probing with a single edge razor blade and then do a brush touch up of those areas.

As for the blob on the hood, that's a crapshoot trying to determine what it might be. But if it feels solid then it's not a air bubble under the paint. If that were the case you could compress it and it probably would have chipped away by now. It could be a solid drop of paint or it could be corrosion forming beneath the paint. It's really hard to tell from the pic. I'd probably do a little razor blade probing there too.

Have fun... That's a cool car to be working on.

Thank you so much for the response! This is some very good insight on how this car was resprayed and what caused the peeling edges of the paint. I was afraid to touch those areas, but I will absolutely try chipping away the peeling edges with a razor blade. I think I may leave the blob on the hood alone though, I like Mike's analogy of mountains and molehills for that particular imperfection. Thanks again for your help. I have been following your threads about your deliberation between a Flex and a Mille, and I like your reasonings for choosing the Rupes. I also very much appreciated the tear down photos!

Cheers!