1987 grand nation help

[Blacklightn25]

My dad has 87 grand national that I am trying to get swirls out of. From what I heard it's single layer paint. I'm using a flex 3401 and wolfgang swirl remover. My pad is black. I used buffer at 4 and paint was very little warm too..got the swirls out, there is no damage to paint ..but don't know if I should continue...is this bad or normal..thanks

[Mike Phillips]

What you're seeing is normal for the factory paint.

I think they called it,

Magic Lacquer


Could be wrong. The tool, pad and product you're using are all top notch. BUT - be careful. These cars are very squared-up. They have a LOT of raised body lines and edges. Single stage black paint tends to be very soft and if you buff too long on a raised body line or along an edge, you will burn or buff though and expose primer.

Over the last few years I've been offered a few of these cars for my detailing classes and I always turn them down. Not a good "training" car for newbies when they have the original single stage paint due to all the hard, sharp body lines.


Cool cars though...

[Blacklightn25]

Thanks you..I was starting to freak out

[Mike Phillips]

We've worked on a few of these cars and their cousins over the last 11 years I've been here.


Here's a kissing cousin...

Pictures: 1987 Buick Regal T-Type WE4 Turbo - Show Car Makeover at Autogeek!





1986 Buick Regal T-Type Turbo






1987 Monte Carlo Extreme Makeover with Rupes and Blackfire BlackICE





VIP Guest Marco D'Inca from Rupes at Autogeek's Detailing Boot Camp Class


I believe this was a Grand National that I had at a class here.




This is Marco D'Inca - one of the RUPES BigFoot Engineers at this class demonstrating the RUPES BigFoot 21 on the trunk lid.




Not a lot of pictures but here's the link to the class...

Pictures: Detailing Boot Camp Class - May 4th & 5th, 2013








Another cousin of the Grand National. This is a Monte Carlo SS I used for an article on cleaning wheel wells.



How to clean fender wells the lazy way!


A reliable hydraulic floor jack and at least two quality jack stands for safety reasons...




Lift the car
Choose either the front or rear of the car to start with and lift the car as high as the body will go without raising the tires off the ground and then place the jack stands at approved points where they are able to support the weight of the car and then carefully lower the jack so that the weight of the car is predominantly on the jackstands.




More Working Space
This is the working space you create by lifting the body of the car up using a hydraulic floor jack without having to remove the wheels.










I've worked on a bunch of cars with the Grand National body style and love the car but.... be careful. They have a lot or raised body lines and edges.

[Mike Phillips]

Thanks you..I was starting to freak out

Seeing pigment on the pad is normal for single stage.

It's a really BAD sign when working on a clearcoat finish.


Here's a car with the original black lacquer paint I detailed a few months ago....


Barn Find - 1950 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe Convertible - Extreme Paint Correction





See the black pigment on the face of the pads?






By the way, there is a TON of information in this write-up about single stage paint.


Barn Find - 1950 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe Convertible - Extreme Paint Correction

[briarpatch]

My dad has 87 grand national that I am trying to get swirls out of. From what I heard it's single layer paint. I'm using a flex 3401 and wolfgang swirl remover. My pad is black. I used buffer at 4 and paint was very little warm too..got the swirls out, there is no damage to paint ..but don't know if I should continue...is this bad or normal..thanks

ahh...single stage black lacquer.....reminds me of my time in the body shop. They were awesome cars, but Mike is right went he says they are 'square'. Be super mindful of those sharp edges. Our shop was the body repair facility for one or area's largest Buick/Oldsmobile dealers...so we saw our fair share of these. Guys would get them and be unable to drive them, and inevitably twist them up.

[Blacklightn25]

How far on paint correction can you go on single stage..I got a decent amount of swirls out but some scratches aren't. I definitely don't want to mess it up.

[2black1s]

How far on paint correction can you go on single stage..I got a decent amount of swirls out but some scratches aren't. I definitely don't want to mess it up.

This is really a judgement call that one needs to make on every project. The more experience you have, the easier it is to make that judgement. Regardless, it's always a judgement call and not a guarantee.

My general philosophy is that typical swirls induced from routine maintenance and usage can be completely and safely removed many times over the life of a vehicle.

Anything beyond the typical swirls is where the risk starts to multiply. Deeper isolated scratches, bird etchings, water spot etchings, etc. are where you really need to consider the big picture. In most cases I will polish to the point that the swirls are completely removed and live with the remaining defects.

There are exceptions, but generally speaking, that is the rule-of-thumb I employ.

[Mike Phillips]

How far on paint correction can you go on single stage..

I got a decent amount of swirls out but some scratches aren't. I definitely don't want to mess it up.

Related to what I wrote above and the link I shared that explains in detail about BLACK single stage paint, this write-up,


Barn Find - 1950 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe Convertible - Extreme Paint Correction


Because single stage black paint is VERY soft - it will abrade VERY FAST - and what's under it will be PRIMER.


Here's something I've been typing for decades,


Sometimes it's better to IMPROVE the defects than try to 100% REMOVE the defects so you don't make a whoops!



From this article,

Considerations for removing paint defects - the BIG PICTURE


Here's a free tip...

If you're reading this and you're thinking about tackling some type of paint defect on your car. BEFORE you start the project, just for fun - take the car to a few local body shops and simply ask them,

What will it cost me to repaint the hood? (or the blank)


Now let that sink in. Besides the cost and hassle of getting a panel repainted - you'll now have a car that no longer has all the factory paint.

Knowing what it will cost to repaint the panel you've burned through will tend to make you a tick more cautions about going all the way.