Correcting Hard Clearcoat

[leif20]

Been in to detailing for a couple years now. Have a dozen or so hours experience with a machine, a few dozen hours with various types of washing, and even more time spent researching and reading especially on AGO. I love that this forum exists and how professionals come together here to debate and progress the craft. Safe to say I’m hooked.

I have a 2006 BMW 330i in Monaco Blue, and the clear is quite hard on this car. The benefit is that it’s pretty hard to scratch the paint, but the drawback is that correcting it seems to be quite a challenge. I got started with the Torq 10FX DA but snagged a great deal on a Makita PO5000C and picked that up. Other gear is Hex Logic orange, white, black pads, along with the Meguiars Ultimate line.

I’m looking to clean up the swirls and random scratches in my paint. This past weekend I took the Makita and the orange pad, set it to forced rotation, and went to work with Ultimate compound. To my surprise, it took quite a lot of effort to get all the swirls and spider webbing out of the paint. I think it took 3 or 4 passes over about a square foot area before all the defects were removed to my satisfaction. The first picture shows what only two passes with this combo looks like. You can still see a few scratches and spiderwebs.



The second picture is where I got the paint to after 4 passes.



My question is what to do with the whole car. Will the whole thing need 4 passes with this compound? Should I step up to a more aggressive compound, or pad? What are recommendations for both? Increase speed on the polisher (I think I had it at about 3.5-4 on the dial)?

Also, what's the best way to clean out these pads so they don't get gummed up? I have two orange pads and two white pads.

Afterwards I'll go have ultimate polish and then Ultimate liquid wax because it really makes the blue pop.

Pic of car after doing this combo two years ago:

[The Guz]

It might be time to invest in a heavier cutting compound such as Sonax Cut Max or 3D ACA. Meguiar's D300 on a microfiber cutting pad might be another option. It worked well for me on my 02 Camaro with hard paint.

I am not familiar with those tools as I have not used them. You may want to consider looking into a microfiber cutting pad to use with the DA. Mike has a write up on the Makita and I am sure he refers to what pads work well with it.

[leif20]

Found a few threads on this topic and will have a look through them when I get the chance. Should have used the google...

Makita PO5000C which pads and product?
Made the plunge and got a Makita PO5000C.
Makita PO5000C Review
Review: Makita PO5000C Orbital Polisher - Gear-driven and Free Spinning - Mike Phillips

[Mike Phillips]

I think it took 3 or 4 passes over about a square foot area before all the defects were removed to my satisfaction.

When you say 3 or 4 passes, do you mean

3-4 Section Passes this means you went over a section 3 or 4 times.

Or you did 8 section passes to a section 3-4 times.

I just covered this in a live video on Facebook.


:_

[Mike Phillips]

More,

The Definition of a Section Pass by Mike Phillips



The definition of a pass
There are two definitions of the word pass as it relates to machine polishing with any type of machine.


Single Pass
A single pass is just that. It's when you move the polisher from one side of the section you're buffing to the other side of the section you're buffing. That's a single pass.


Section Pass
A section pass is when you move the polisher back and forth, or front to back with enough single overlapping passes to cover the entire section one time. That's a section pass.


How many section passes to make to one area of paint
In most cases if you're removing any substantial below surface defects you're going to make 6-8 section passes to the section you’re working before you either feel comfortable you've removed the defects or you're at the end of the buffing cycle for the product you're using.


Years ago, when trying to figure out how to teach a person how to buff out a car using a keyboard I came up with the term Section Pass or Section Passes.

A section pass or passes is the way you move a polisher to buff out a section of paint. Doing section passes is doing a crosshatch pattern over a section of paint.


Polish first going left to right. This would be ONE SECTION PASS - you went over the section one time.





Make a second pass over the working area using overlapping “up to down, down to up” strokes. This would be 2 section passes, you have went over the section twice.






If you repeated the above two section passes 3 more times, that would be a total of 8 section passes.


You normally need to do around 8 section passes to give the tool, pad, abrasives, arm speed and downward pressure enough time to abrade enough paint to level it.


Make sense?

[mwoolfso]

Sonax or Menzerna will do a much better and faster job compared to Megs UC (MUC). There are others of course that can do better than MUC; as this is a medium-cut polish. Based on what I have in my inventory, I'd go with a 2-step using Menzerna's FG400 (compount), followed with SF-3500 / SF-3800 (polish). But, a test spot is always advised so you can lock in a 1 or 2-step to your liking.

[leif20]

To clarify. In my original post, I assumed a pass would be the whole process of applying product, going back and forth horizontally over the area, and then back and forth vertically over the area, resulting in the depiction above with red AND black arrows. Each pass would have been 2 section passes.

So in this sense I would say I did 4 section passes in the first picture, and then the results I am looking for came from doing 8 or so section passes. I was just surprised that I would need to do 8 section passes to clear out all the defects, and shudder to think of how long it will take to do the whole car :\

I was thinking that there must be a product that would be able to level and correct in 4 section passes, or is this just a dream?

[gorillapr]

If we talk about Lake Country CCS foam pads it will be good to cut with orange, polish with green and lsp with black?

Or is better to use white for polishing?

Again, assuming LC CCS foam pads

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Autogeekonline mobile app

[Mike Phillips]

I was just surprised that I would need to do 8 section passes to clear out all the defects, and shudder to think of how long it will take to do the whole car :\

I was thinking that there must be a product that would be able to level and correct in 4 section passes, or is this just a dream?

Yes that would be a dream.

It simply takes some time for all the actions taking place at the surface level to GENTLY abrade and level the paint.

You can go faster with more powerful tools, pads and products, BUT even then, you're going to be at an average of 8 section passes and sometimes more.


Read through this, check to see each factor I list and how you're doing everything.

DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide

[Mike Phillips]

and shudder to think of how long it will take to do the whole car :\

And to go a little deeper, this is why I encourage everyone to inspect their microfiber towels.


It takes HOURS to buff out a car and remove all the swirls and scratches and if your towels are contaminated, (easy to do), it only takes SECONDS to put scratches back into the paint.


See the importance?

How, why & when to inspect your microfiber towels when detailing cars