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  1. #11
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    Re: Trying to Understand Ceramic Coating Toppers

    I kind of accepted that when I initially posed the question, but you never know what kind of answers you get if you don't try right? I'm in the middle of testing products right now.

    I don't want to get off track from the main question here of how toppers bond to coatings, but to answer your questions:

    - The coating typically lasts 5+ years but it's warrantied to keep it's hydrophobic properties for 4. No maintenance necessary other than regular washing

    - Yes swirls can certainly be introduced. I provide a pamphlet to all my customers on proper car washing technique to help minimize this. The general population doesn't really care too much about swirls, they just want protection and hydrophobic qualities. For people who clearly care more about their paint, I recommend 1-2 year coatings

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  3. #12
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    Re: Trying to Understand Ceramic Coating Toppers

    I used to be of the opinion that a true coating, after cured, should shed anything you put on top of it in short order, including itself. This is how I mentally separated coatings from sealants. Now there's so many types of coating products on the market, many which only need minimal prep, it's pretty impossible to say what's what. Look at CanCoat, seemingly works fine as a coating on its own but many use it to "top" older coatings.

    I personally wouldn't waste energy trying to figure out the chemical details of these products. If the "topper" adds something that your customer wants (slickness, gloss, etc) that the "coating" lacks, then top away. But then maybe you just need a "coating" that gives the characteristics you want in the first place!

  4. #13
    Super Member FUNX650's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to Understand Ceramic Coating Toppers

    Quote Originally Posted by Autobahnd View Post
    I don't want to get off track from the
    main question here of how toppers
    bond to coatings...
    Like I said before:
    You can’t prove that toppers will, or won’t,
    bond to Coatings without the use of tools/
    equipment such as electron microscopes.

    Conversely:
    I will guarantee that you, or your customers,
    will not be awakened and find that a topper
    has, somehow or the other, slipped-off the
    underlying Coating, and is now piled-up and
    lying on the garage floor/driveway/parking
    spot/etc. next to/around the vehicle.


    To that I say:
    It’s only money;
    Top away!
    Everythings gonna be okay.



    Quote Originally Posted by Autobahnd View Post
    The general population doesn't really care
    too much about swirls, they just want
    protection and hydrophobic qualities.
    Protection? Hydrophobicity? Nah.

    •From my decades of experience...
    -I’ve determined that the general
    populace wants SHINY!



    Bob
    "Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk."
    ~Joaquin de Setanti

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  6. #14
    Super Member Eldorado2k's Avatar
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    Trying to Understand Ceramic Coating Toppers

    IMO the only reason for concern would be if the topper would somehow screw up the underlying coating. If all it does is wear off then what’s the harm? But if it wears off and takes the coating with it? Then I’d have something to be P.O. about... That’s what usually happens when you go topping a good sealant with an inferior topper, which is why I don’t usually mess around with so called “toppers”...

    Coatings seem like a whole nother animal though... IMO they seem big on beading and small on actual protecting so I stay away from using them.Trying to Understand Ceramic Coating Topperslol.

    Show me a coated vehicle that can still pass a baggie test after its 3yr. lifespan? I’ve never seen it. Heck I’ve never even seen anyone claim that kind of protection at the 1yr. mark... On the other hand I have seen even spray sealants [Megs D115] keep an outdoor daily driver free from bonded contaminants for 3 whole years. My personal vehicles easily go beyond 1yr. and still pass the baggie test.

  7. #15
    Super Member Coatingsarecrack's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to Understand Ceramic Coating Toppers

    Quote Originally Posted by FUNX650 View Post
    Like I said before:


    To that I say:
    It’s only money;
    Top away!
    Everythings gonna be okay.


    SHINY!



    Bob
    Is this some sort of hybrid detailing haiku?Trying to Understand Ceramic Coating ToppersTrying to Understand Ceramic Coating Toppers


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  9. #16
    Super Member acuRAS82's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to Understand Ceramic Coating Toppers

    Quote Originally Posted by Autobahnd View Post
    I don't really understand what rejuvenating a ceramic coating means. If the coating I'm certified for loses it's hydrophobic properties within 4 years, it's considered to have failed. I can't say to the customer "wait, let me rejuvenate it!" Lol.
    Can you really know that the coating has failed if the hydrophobic properties are gone? What if a few chemical washes and Iron Removers “rejuvenate” the beading characteristics? Did it “un-fail”?

    And in reality, the rejuvenation that is being mentioned is going to improve the previously degraded hydrophobic behavior, gloss, slickness. Reduced is the likely reality versus “failed”. I’ve never seen coating behavior go from as good as new to totally gone over night. I assume you have been using this 4 year warranties before, and I would suspect that the hydrophobic properties may start to deteriorate well before the 4 year mark. At what grey line is a customer going to decide that they believe the coating is a failure? A good chemical wash and topper can get things back to looking “as new” without re-doing the extensive polish/prep/coating application process. If this extends these properties at year 2 or 3 for another 4-6 months in the time it takes to wash and dry a car, why not?

    Many of these toppers don’t last as long on pure paint as they do remain glossy and hydrophobic on coatings... I know this based on reading the experience of users on this forum. I don’t have time or resources to pay scientists to tell me why, but I’m OK learning from others and trying things on my own.

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  11. #17
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    Re: Trying to Understand Ceramic Coating Toppers

    Loach thanks for the info and your dedication to the craft! I recently had CSF applied and although I am happy with the result it seems to be a dust magnet. All panels collect dust and air born particles on all panels while parked in the garage. I've driven the car and see that some of it actually blows off just by driving. I'm thinking that the Meguiar's Hybrid Ceramic Detailer may help repel some of the issue.

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