autogeekonline car wax, car care and auto detailing forum Autogeek on TV
car wax, car care and auto detailing forumAutogeekonline autogeekonline car wax, car care and auto detailing forum HomeForumBlogAutogeek.net StoreDetailing Classes with Mike PhillipsGalleryDetailing How To's
 

» Detailing Classes

New Dates Available for the Autogeek Roadshow!
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Senior Member theamcguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Posts
    256
    Post Thanks / Like

    Polishers - Forced Rotation vs Free Wheeling

    Polishers - Forced Rotation vs Free Wheeling


    Mike here is a question I have never seen addressed when would it be advantageous to use a free wheeling polisher vs a forced rotation polisher?

    I understand the benefits of a forced rotation machine but if a detailer had both a free wheeling polisher like the Flex XFE 15 (cordless free wheeling polisher) and the Flex XCE 18 (CBEAST) what would be a situation where the XFE 15 would be a better choice than the XCE 18?

    Thank you
    Bill Strobel
    Owner Independent Towing & Repair
    Fayetteville, NC
    Do It Right or Don't Do It At All

  2. #2
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Stuart, Florida
    Posts
    48,266
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Polishers - Forced Rotation vs Free Wheeling

    Hi Bill,

    Great question. And I have answered this in the past. I often type,

    Half of my forum work is remembering where stuff I've written is located.


    Because this is a good topic and the car I detailed brings this topic to my memory, here you go...


    Christmas Detail - Ferrari P4 - Move over Rudolf





    In post 31 in the above write-up I'm asked why I started with the gear-driven BEAST yet finished with the free spinning polisher.

    Here's the question and my answer and I stand by this answer today as I typed in in the year 2013




    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Amos View Post

    What made you decide to finish out with the GV110 vs the Flex? Pad size selection or the non forced rotation maybe?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips

    Good question...

    I find on softer paints like this car has that the PC style with a Fine Cut Polish finishes out nicer than with the more powerful Flex 3401. The paint on this car was incredibly soft. I only did my test spot using the Flex 3401 and end-results were acceptable, I did the PC step just to "make sure".

    I also machine applied the wax using the PC.


    I think we will all agree a free spinning random orbital polisher is less aggressive than any brand of gear-driven orbital polisher, it's just the nature of the beast - no pun intended.

    Soft paints tend to scratch easier than hard paints and also tend to MICRO-MAR easier. A free spinning tool with the right pad and polish will reduce the potential for micro-marring as compared to a gear-driven polisher.

    Of course you can finish out with a gear-driven orbital on soft paints, I'm not saying you cannot, heck I do it all the time. What enables "us" to do this is the ever improving abrasive technology and foam pad technology.

    What I am saying however is it's easier and more bubba-proof to use a free spinning tool if that's an option.

    In my opinion, every pro detailer should have at least these 3 tools minimum.

    1: Gear-driven orbital polisher.

    2: Free spinning random orbital polisher.

    3: Rotary Polisher.

    Nice to have are micro-tools.

    1: FLEX PXE

    2: RUPES Nano

    3: Griot's G8


    Mike Phillips
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
    IDA Board Member - Certified Detailer - Skills Validated Detailer - IDA Recognized Trainer
    Mike Phillips Facebook Page
    Twitter
    Instagram
    Mike Phillips Detail Training Credentials
    Sign-up for Mike's Tips & Techniques Newsletter


  3. Thanks Diner thanked for this post
    Likes SWETM, luckydawg liked this post
  4. #3
    Senior Member theamcguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Posts
    256
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Polishers - Forced Rotation vs Free Wheeling

    Mike Thank you for your great answer, it was exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I really appreciate it.
    Bill Strobel
    Owner Independent Towing & Repair
    Fayetteville, NC
    Do It Right or Don't Do It At All

  5. #4
    Junior Member flooramatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Polishers - Forced Rotation vs Free Wheeling

    I use ONLY 'free-wheeling' polisher on EVERY vehicle

    Forced rotation is TOO AGGRESSIVE, esp on luxury cars & new or newly repainted vehicles

  6. #5
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Stuart, Florida
    Posts
    48,266
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Polishers - Forced Rotation vs Free Wheeling

    Quote Originally Posted by flooramatic View Post

    I use ONLY 'free-wheeling' polisher on EVERY vehicle
    Always a safe approach.



    Quote Originally Posted by flooramatic View Post

    Forced rotation is TOO AGGRESSIVE, esp on luxury cars & new or newly repainted vehicles

    Forced rotation is a rotary buffer.

    Forced rotation and oscillation is a gear-driven orbital.


    I'm pretty sure Bill meant a gear-driven orbital when he wrote the title of this thread as

    Polishers - Forced Rotation vs Free Wheeling


    As a word guy, a writer and a person that ALWAYS chooses and uses each and ever word I post specifically, I would have wrote the title,

    Polishers - Gear-driven orbital polishers versus free spinning random orbital polishers


    Just to note, 99.9% of the time I see someone on Facebook refer to a gear-driven orbital like the BEAST, the Mille or the Makita PO5000C, they refer to it as a

    Forced Rotation


    So they are ALL wrong to with the way they describe a gear-driven orbital.

    A forced rotation tool describes ONE ACTION - that's rotary buffer.

    A gear-driven orbital describes TWO ACTIONS. The BEAST, Mille or PO5000C



    For what it's worth


    Mike Phillips
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
    IDA Board Member - Certified Detailer - Skills Validated Detailer - IDA Recognized Trainer
    Mike Phillips Facebook Page
    Twitter
    Instagram
    Mike Phillips Detail Training Credentials
    Sign-up for Mike's Tips & Techniques Newsletter


  7. Thanks VitreousHumor, PaulMys thanked for this post
    Likes luckydawg, VitreousHumor liked this post
  8. #6
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Stuart, Florida
    Posts
    48,266
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Polishers - Forced Rotation vs Free Wheeling

    Quote Originally Posted by theamcguy View Post

    Mike Thank you for your great answer, it was exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I really appreciate it.

    No problemo…


    Mike Phillips
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
    IDA Board Member - Certified Detailer - Skills Validated Detailer - IDA Recognized Trainer
    Mike Phillips Facebook Page
    Twitter
    Instagram
    Mike Phillips Detail Training Credentials
    Sign-up for Mike's Tips & Techniques Newsletter


  9. #7
    Senior Member Kamakaz1961's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Tustin, CA
    Posts
    4,182
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Polishers - Forced Rotation vs Free Wheeling

    Try polishing a Porsche 911 with a Free Floating DA. So many curves (beautiful curves I might add) that it would more than likely STOP the free float from its orbital rotation. A flex 3401 will just breeze right through that. But it does take finesse to use that Flex right!

    But Mike is right about the DA's needed in your arsenal. My free float DA is a PC7424XP and love it for my sealant/wax application.

    KEEP ON ROCKING!
    CJ
    2013 Mustang GT w/Track Pack 6-Speed Manual
    Save the Manual!

  10. Likes dcjredline liked this post
  11. #8
    Senior Member dcjredline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    3,203
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Polishers - Forced Rotation vs Free Wheeling

    LOL @ a forced rotation DA being DANGEROUS!!!! Its only as dangerous as the operator. IF you arent familiar with the polisher or are afraid of it that doesnt make the polisher dangerous. If you only detail flat panels a free spinning DA will be fine, as CJ said yer not gonna polish (well) a good majority of cars with curves as well as you are with a forced rotation DA like the 3401. Sorry
    "Dirt likes detergent so much better than the surface that it's attached to, it'll leave that surface to go hang out with the soap"...aim4squirrels

  12. Thanks Kamakaz1961 thanked for this post
    Likes Kamakaz1961 liked this post
  13. #9
    Senior Member dcjredline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    3,203
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Polishers - Forced Rotation vs Free Wheeling

    Forced rotation is TOO AGGRESSIVE, esp on luxury cars & new or newly repainted vehicles

    Actually most body shops IME use a rotary polisher(if you were talking about rotary cause a forced DA isnt much more aggressive than a free spinning) specifically on newly painted vehicles because they cut much faster. Dunno where you get your info from. As I said before the operator is much more important of a factor than the tool they are using.
    "Dirt likes detergent so much better than the surface that it's attached to, it'll leave that surface to go hang out with the soap"...aim4squirrels

  14. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Polishers - Forced Rotation vs Free Wheeling

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    Hi Bill,

    Great question. And I have answered this in the past. I often type,

    Half of my forum work is remembering where stuff I've written is located.


    Because this is a good topic and the car I detailed brings this topic to my memory, here you go...


    Christmas Detail - Ferrari P4 - Move over Rudolf





    In post 31 in the above write-up I'm asked why I started with the gear-driven BEAST yet finished with the free spinning polisher.

    Here's the question and my answer and I stand by this answer today as I typed in in the year 2013












    I think we will all agree a free spinning random orbital polisher is less aggressive than any brand of gear-driven orbital polisher, it's just the nature of the beast - no pun intended.

    Soft paints tend to scratch easier than hard paints and also tend to MICRO-MAR easier. A free spinning tool with the right pad and polish will reduce the potential for micro-marring as compared to a gear-driven polisher.

    Of course you can finish out with a gear-driven orbital on soft paints, I'm not saying you cannot, heck I do it all the time. What enables "us" to do this is the ever improving abrasive technology and foam pad technology.

    What I am saying however is it's easier and more bubba-proof to use a free spinning tool if that's an option.

    In my opinion, every pro detailer should have at least these 3 tools minimum.

    1: Gear-driven orbital polisher.

    2: Free spinning random orbital polisher.

    3: Rotary Polisher.

    Nice to have are micro-tools.

    1: FLEX PXE

    2: RUPES Nano

    3: Griot's G8


    Mike, I just read the post you suggested and the results of that detail are amazing.
    Thanks for posting!

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-29-2019, 08:54 PM
  2. Forced Rotation VS Free Spinning...
    By Sonic Pilot in forum Auto Detailing 101
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 09-21-2018, 08:45 PM
  3. Free spin vs forced rotation
    By joleyred in forum Auto Detailing 101
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-10-2018, 12:19 PM
  4. Forced rotation polishers
    By brettS4 in forum Auto Detailing 101
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-07-2017, 09:00 PM
  5. DA and Forced Rotation polishers
    By tedhw in forum Porter Cable 7424XP Dual Action Orbital Polisher
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-04-2014, 08:30 PM

Members who have read this thread: 8

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» September 2020

S M T W T F S
3031 1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 123