Help - water spots returned even AFTER machine polishing?

[Mike Phillips]

Help - water spots returned even AFTER machine polishing?



Anytime I get questions via e-mail, a PM or a FB message I prefer to invest my typing time where

A: It's easier for me to share links, pictures and videos.

B: More people can read and thus benefit from the information. (no just one set of eyeballs)


The reality is, most people that contact me found me via an article I've written or a reply I've written on this forum. The thing is, instead of figuring out that the whole reason they are contacting me is because they found me via an article or answer I wrote on the forum that they to should bring their question to the forum because not only will that help them.... but it will help a future "them". If I answer everything in a private e-mail or other touch point, no one would find and contact me. It's a cycle or pattern that repeats as long as everything is shared in the public domain.

The above is kind of wordy but re-read it slowly and it will make sense.


So I get an e-mail asking,

Hello Mike,

watch you all the time on various TV shows and am convinced you are the "go-to guy" as far an auto finishes.

short story - black single stage paint fiberglass car had been done with wolfgang (clayed, compounded with menzerma, wolfgang swirl remover, wolfgang polish, wolfgang sealer, porter cable & lake county pads about 2 years ago (always garaged & usually also covered). Was showing some minor holograms from washing and spray wax or detailer, however still looked good, when first done was awesome and drew comments about. (please also note have same situation with black lexus coupe & dark green tundra truck both of which were done similarly)

working in garage, cutting mdf, got sawdust all over car. no big deal right ? had to park outside, and of course it snowed on the car, while sawdust still there. weather here in Denver area, unlike Fla, was extreme cold, snow etc daily so sat on car for quite a while.

when washed car had what looked like water spots all over. tried all i know for solvents etc to remove, no good. finally tried menzerna compound and seemed to remove, although took a lot of effort. so... bit the bullet, clayed, compounded, wolfgang swirl remover, wolfgang polish, wolfgang sealer using porter-cable, whole car. although took probably 15hr plus, looked great, seemed that were all gone, looked as good as did first time done.

drove car first time yesterday, hot, sunny. when returned home and put in garage ... all the spots (which were gone previously) were back.

again tried various solvents, (strongest being lacquer thinner .. cringe !!!) on small portion, nothing seems to improve till compound (test section by hand) however did this previously by machine (porter-cable) and appeared to work, but sadly did not. really don't want to redo, only to find did not work again.

am hesitant to try rotary buffer as too easy to burn.

PLEASE HELP seems like I did nothing to improve.

THANK YOU for your time and consideration.

E.A.

Great questions E.A.


Thank you for your patience for me to return to work to reply to you. Happy to hear you found me via TV and I've worked on lot in the TV world as it relates to sharing proper techniques for car detailing, but the majority of my work can be found on this forum via my,

1. How to articles
   
2. Replies to questions from forum members and people like you the send me your questions via e-mail.
   

Typing time is limited. So I try my hardest to answer questions on the forum where I can format text and share pictures and videos plus "links" to more info. With e-mail - it cannot be counted on to display all these things correctly PLUS only one set of eyeballs ever sees the info.


Hang tight, I'll do my best to answer your questions.

[Mike Phillips]

Help - water spots returned even AFTER machine polishing?

Much information removed - I'm going to quote the pertinent info...

when washed car had what looked like water spots all over.

Anyway you can share a picture?

To add to this thread get the TapaTalk app

The easy way to share a picture on a forum - Tapatalk App for your cell phone


Just sounds weird that sawdust and snow would cause "spots" as we know them - that is usually ROUNDISH looking impressions in the paint.

tried all i know for solvents etc to remove, no good. finally tried menzerna compound and seemed to remove, although took a lot of effort. so... bit the bullet, clayed, compounded, wolfgang swirl remover, wolfgang polish, wolfgang sealer using porter-cable, whole car. although took probably 15hr plus, looked great, seemed that were all gone, looked as good as did first time done.

drove car first time yesterday, hot, sunny. when returned home and put in garage ... all the spots (which were gone previously) were back.

again tried various solvents, (strongest being lacquer thinner .. cringe !!!) on small portion, nothing seems to improve till compound (test section by hand) however did this previously by machine (porter-cable) and appeared to work, but sadly did not. really don't want to redo, only to find did not work again.

am hesitant to try rotary buffer as too easy to burn.

PLEASE HELP seems like I did nothing to improve.

THANK YOU for your time and consideration.

E.A.

That is strange that the spots would return after they appeared to be gone after machine polishing with quality products.

It's possible you removed "most" of the spots and now it's the "imprint rings" that are still "in" the paint.

It's also possible that there some form of acidic or alkaline contamination taking place that needs to be neutralized.


Maybe one of our forum members could guess as to what sawdust plus water could create that is either acidic or alkaline?

Bob aka FUNX650?

[Mike Phillips]

More...


I'm scheduled to teach a class in Englewood, Colorado on August 24th and 25th. So far there's not many people signing up so chances it will get cancelled. For anyone reading this that was "thinking" of attending, NOW would be a good time to get signed up or fly out here to Stuart, Florida in September for the 3 day class.


Here's info

Autogeek's Roadshow Detailing Class August 24th & 25th in Englewood, Colorado

Class will be held here if it fills up.

Denver Auto Shield
4211 South Natches Court Suite D
Englewood, CO 80110


Because it's so much better to be able to visually SEE this type of paint defect in order to troubleshoot it - I can introduce you to the owner of Denver Auto Shield and I'm sure if you take your car to him he will be happy to take a look at it and see if he can figure out what the problem is.

I'll e-mail you the link to this thread and his name and phone number.


How's this for Autogeek Customer Service?

[REEGEEMON]

Thanks for the response Mike !

WATER SPOTS ARE GONE !!!

Was told by body shop needs wetsand. Did not do. Seemed way too aggressive.

What done: re-complund with menzerna 1000 using a wool pad and a rotary at slow speed (scared the crap out of me using even this aggressive a combo), this left considerable swirling.

Followed with another compound to refine using orbital with foam pad. Then the complete Wolfgang process again.

Has been 2 days since done and can't see any of the spots.

Am convinced that the mdf adhesive combined with water and time caused, as were etched into paint.

Anyhow seems like fixed it ! Once again looks great.

Now just have to repeat whole process on black Lexus SC & dark green Tundra, think will try to skip the rotary and try just orbital and see what happens after compound and sun, prior to continuing with Wolfgang.

Any way done will be a long process, has taught me a lesson --- break out the arctic gear and rinse them off, no matter how nasty and cold is out !!!

Thanks Again for the help.

[Mike Phillips]

Thanks for the response Mike !

WATER SPOTS ARE GONE !!!

Good to hear!

Was told by body shop needs wetsand. Did not do. Seemed way too aggressive.

You chose wisely. Click the link below and look at the pictures. Then next time you have a Post-it Note - hold it between your fingers.



And remember,

Sanding removes paint.
Compounding removes paint.
Polishing removes a little paint.

On a factory finish - it's so easy to sooner or later, turn your buffing pad over and see the color of the car on the pad.

That's bad sign.

Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips


The majority of cars being manufactured today and starting since the 1980's use what's called a basecoat/clearcoat paint system. With this system, a clear layer of paint is sprayed over the top of the basecoat which is also the color coat or the layer of paint that has pigment in it. If the car has a metallic finish then the metallic flakes are also in the basecoat.

The basecoat doesn't offer any gloss or shine and in fact it's dull or matte looking after it's sprayed. The basecoat gets it's gloss, shine, depth and reflectivity by the spraying of the clearcoat layer of paint over the top of it. This is why if a person removes too much clearcoat when buffing and they expose the basecoat it will appear to be a dull round or oval spot on a body panel. The part of the paint system that adds beauty has been removed revealing the dull or matte basecoat layer of paint.



Just how thin is the clear layer of paint on a factory paint job?

The factory clearcoat on a new or modern car measures approximately 2 mils thin.

The average post-it not is around 3 mils thin.





What does this mean?

This means the factory clearcoat on a new or modern car is thinner than a post-it note. The next time you have a post-it note in front of you, feel a single post-it note between your fingers. Like this...





This experience will drive home the point as to just how thin the clear layer of paint is on modern car with a factory paint job.

It should also drive home the importance of using the least aggressive pad, product and even tools to get the job done.

When I say, get the job done, the context of this usually means someone is buffing out a car to remove paint defects like swirls, scratches, water spots and oxidation to make the paint and thus the car look better.

By using the least aggressive products you "get the job done" while leaving the most paint on the car to it will last over the mechanical service life of the car.

If you're working on your own cars and you're reading this you're already ahead of the game by reading the AGO forum and probably being a member so you can ask questions and get help.

If you're working on customer's cars take a professional approach as a service to your customers.


If you're reading this and you're going to do the work yourself or hire a detailer then do some research and make sure you hire a detailer that knows this type of stuff because the factory clearcoat on your car is thin.

Thanks Again for the help.

Apologies for the delay in getting back to you.... I was on vacation

Offline until Tuesday, July 9th


And I'm simply not set-up to do lots of speed typing like I am when at work with a full size Microsoft Ergo Keyboard and my arm holder uppers.

[Mike@ShineStruck]

My method is an acid based waterspot remover
Rinse/dry
Heat gun
Cool down
reapply waterspot remover if waterspot surfaced
Alkaline
Rinse
Dry
Reseal

Clear coat thickness stays intact

[REEGEEMON]

Thanks for the help & sage advice !