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  1. #1
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Can you apply a ceramic coating to old school single stage lacquer paint?

    Can you apply a ceramic coating to old school single stage lacquer paint?



    Anytime I get questions via e-mail, a PM or a FB message I prefer to invest my typing time where

    A: It's easier for me to share links, pictures and videos.

    B: More people can read and thus benefit from the information. (no just one set of eyeballs)


    The reality is, most people that contact me found me via an article I've written or a reply I've written on this forum. The thing is, instead of figuring out that the whole reason they are contacting me is because they found me via an article or answer I wrote on the forum that they to should bring their question to the forum because not only will that help them.... but it will help a future "them". If I answer everything in a private e-mail or other touch point, no one would find and contact me. It's a cycle or pattern that repeats as long as everything is shared in the public domain.

    The above is kind of wordy but re-read it slowly and it will make sense.


    So I get an e-mail asking,




    Mike,

    I am going to detail a 1969 Chevrolet SS Impala 427 the first week in July. This car is black with black interior and a black vinyl roof all numbers matching car. The car is pristine except for the paint.

    The car was repainted around 2006, however instead of using base coat clear coat they used lacquer.

    The car has a lot of defects in the paint (spider webs, swirls and very dull). The owner would like to have it totally detailed inside, trunk, engine and body. She also asked about having it ceramic coated. I have detailed a lot of cars however, I don't do this full time ( more of a hobby).

    The only one that was not base coat clear coat was when we worked on Kyle Tucker's 41 Willey's at Detail Fest ( So it's been a while).

    My plan is to use a Porter Cable DA polisher and Sonax 4/6 finishing polish with a fairly mild pad (Pink Lake Country). I use gtechniq panel wipe, ultra serum light and Exo.

    Can that even be applied to lacquer?

    Any advice you can give me on how I should proceed will be very much appreciated. I really want this car to be it's best.

    I was a student of yours in Stuart, May of 2013.

    Respectfully,
    Gary





    Great questions Gary,


    First there's no LAW or regulation against applying a ceramic, quartz or polymer coating to single stage paint.

    Here is the only concern. Because OLD SCHOOL single stage paint is porous, UNLIKE modern basecoat/clearcoat paints, the ACT of chemically stripping it with a solvent, and I would say a very STRONG solvent like GTechniq Panel Wipe, has the effect to DULL the paint.

    I always call this,

    Working backwards

    So it goes against my natural inclination and best practice,

    To do no harm


    That said, there's no law or regulation against chemically striping old school single stage paints and applying coatings to them. Because they are porous, the POLISHING OILS from ANY brand of compound or polish, even those that state they are water based, (they still have some type of lubricating and beautifying oil in them), will penetrated into the paint and make it look better, sometimes darker. When you chemically strip single stage paint, the solvents will seep into the pores of the paint and leach out these oils and this can have a dulling effect. With a normal wax or synthetic sealant, you apply this right over the oils in the paint and create a uniform [beautiful] finish.

    The stronger the solvent the more dramatic the dulling effect can be.

    (Of course is you're working on white or light colored paints you would dull it but your eyes would not see the dulling effect)


    So here's what you could do - test out your process to a single panel and see how it looks. If it looks good repeat the process over the rest of the car. If it looks horrible, be glad you only tested to a single panel. Re-polish this panel and then use a traditional carnauba wax or synthetic paint sealant.


    Hope this helps.






    Please feel encouraged to join our forum, this is where I answer questions. Email and Facebook messaging are okay, but the forum is a LOT more powerful. Everything posted to Facebook is like a vapor. Here for a moment and then gone.


    Click here to join the AutogeekOnline.net car detailing discussion forum - THE best forum on the Internet




  2. #2
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: Can you apply a ceramic coating to old school single stage laquer paint?

    A couple more things....


    I get asked to coat a lot of show cars. A 1969 Chevrolet SS Impala 427 is a show car.

    I DOUBT this thing is driven back and forth to work, sitting outside in a parking lot from 9 to 5, five and six days a week like a Toyota Prius or a Honda Accord.


    Here's my point - garage queens look GREAT with ceramic coatings, I'll share one below I did for a 1969 Dodge Coronet BUT it had a basecoat/clearcoat finish. Because most garage queens spend most of their life in a garage, not daily driven - a quality carnauba wax or synthetic paint sealant will last a long time and look good a long time.


    Make sense?


    If fact - I'm a HUGE fan of using a product like Pinnacle Jeweling Wax on show cars and then topping with a show car wax. This way, down the road if any light marring does happen to the paint it's SO EASY and fast to fix. Simply re-machine apply the Pinnacle Jeweling Wax.

    This light cleaning jeweling wax is also a FAST and easy way to freshen up any paint job on garage queens. There are benefits to cleaner/waxes when you think outside the box as compared to coatings.



  3. #3
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: Can you apply a ceramic coating to old school single stage laquer paint?

    More...


    Here's a show car I coated that is a garage queen but does have a basecoat/clearcoat paint job.


    Bucket List Buff - 426 Hemi - 1969 Dodge Coronet







  4. #4
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: Can you apply a ceramic coating to old school single stage laquer paint?

    And eve MORE.....



    Back in 2013, when ceramic paint coatings were first being introduced, (my first coating article dates to 2011), I did a one-on-one class with a forum member by the name of Eric aka ekennett.


    NOTE: This paint was SINGLE STAGE but it is a MODERN URATHNE single stage paint. So it's more like a modern clearcoat than like an OLD SCHOOL, solvent-evaporation lacquer or enamel. And this is why I kept capitalizing the words OLD SCHOOL in my first post because I wanted to draw attention to the words to draw attention to the difference as I know most people don't read - they scan.


    Post date: July, 22nd, 2013

    Detailer’s Paint Coating on Single Stage Paint






    Eric dampening a clean, dry gold Finger Pocket with Detailer’s Paint Coating




    Gently applying the coating...




    Glassy looking...







    Try to find any of the above on a fB group.




  5. #5
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: Can you apply a ceramic coating to old school single stage lacquer paint?


  6. #6
    Super Member
    Join Date
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    Re: Can you apply a ceramic coating to old school single stage lacquer paint?

    How about if instead of a strong panel wipe you use something like Duragloss Squeaky Clean or the McKees37 Paint Coating Prep polish?

    Mike, do you think they would dull the paint? There is not doubt that they clean the paint very well.

  7. #7
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: Can you apply a ceramic coating to old school single stage lacquer paint?

    Quote Originally Posted by DBAILEY View Post

    How about if instead of a strong panel wipe you use something like Duragloss Squeaky Clean or the McKees37 Paint Coating Prep polish?

    Mike, do you think they would dull the paint? There is not doubt that they clean the paint very well.

    The dulling effect is a by-product of removing the oils and any other substance that could and would interfere with a proper bond of the product to the paint. What all coating manufactures state is that the surface must be free from any oils or OTHER SUBSTANCES in order for the coating to bond and perform as advertised. Especially when it comes to

    Beading water
    Lasting a long time


    But yes, I think a person could get away with either of the above two products as well as any quality panel wipe. Remember - I type for people that tend to be ANAL RETENTIVE and live in the

    HYPOTHETICAL WORLD


    They often have unreal expectations and for these reasons I type and take the info I extrapolate-out to the nth degree.



  8. Thanks DBAILEY thanked for this post

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