Single Stage Questions

[sonnymorrow]

(Skip to the bottom to find the questions)

Hello, long time lurker here I've just made an account and I'm making a post as I'm finally getting around to detailing the single stage paint on my 1984 Mercedes 300d. I'll mention that I have read a TON of information regarding single stage paints on this forums, including Mike's super in-depth single stage paint thread. With that being said I feel pretty confident working on the car in question although I do have a few questions for Mike or anyone who can chime in.

I picked this car up about a year ago and as you can see the paint is in excellent shape all around, with an impressive 230k miles on the clock. An old German lady sold the car to me in Northern California after her husband had passed away; the two of them originally purchased the car new in Germany back in 1984 and had the vehicle shipped on a boat to San Jose California where the two of them lived up until recently. This vehicle is in very rare condition and it possesses its original 585 Altrot single stage paint job, which is definitely one of the rarest colors in the W123 Mercedes series. I have done literally nothing to the paint in the past year and now I am ready to, most importantly preserve this car's paint, as well as bring it to a showroom finish.





My approach to this vehicle is going to be the following unless advised something else:

1. Waterless wash with microfiber towels to gently remove any dirt/debris
2. Clay the paint to remove any stuck on surface dirt
3. Spend a few days rubbing the paint with Meguiars #7 with a cotton terry cloth (as if my life depends on it)
4. I purchased a Porter-Cable 742XP which I will be using Pinnacle Advanced Swirl remover after step 3
5. After Pinnacle Advanced Swirl removed I will use Pinnacle Advanced Finishing polish
6. After a wipe down I'll wax the paint with Meguiar's Souveran wax

Is this a good approach to this vehicle? Mike I have seen your work on that 1972 Mercedes 280 SE a while back, and this is the approach I think you pretty much used. Although the only thing that concerns me about using the same steps as you did with the 280 SE is that the paint on this car isn't really oxidized at all. Of course there are some cloudy spots here and there, scratches, millions of swirl marks, usual patina all over the car etc. With that being said, do you think the above approach is adequate?

One major thing to point out is that the front passenger fender was replaced some years ago before I owned the car and consequently the fender doesn't have its original paint on that side. Instead its a very good match to the original color and you can't even tell the difference, although unfortunately it has a clear coat over just the passenger front fender. Thankfully whoever did the job didn't blend the paint into the the passenger door. What should I do to this fender during my paint detailing, how should I work around it?

Thank you so much if anyone's read this, I'd appreciate any advice.

- Sonny

[JustJesus]

Looking at the pic, I thought the paint was in pretty decent shape for being that old. Reading your post, it confirmed very little in the way of oxidation. Maybe a few cloudy spots.

That being said, I wouldn't bother getting spaghetti arms from going nuts with the M07. Maybe lightly, if you wanted. I'd focus more on the cloudy spots.

Being as rare as it is, with mostly original paint, I would likely not even go after the swirls. Not if they're not so deep/heavy. I'd much rather keep as much of the original paint on that thing! Clean it up good, and wax it.

Though, if you were going for the gold with it, then yes, your process sounds good

Nice find with that car.

[sonnymorrow]

Appreciate the quick feedback. I definitely see what you're saying although I really am going for gold here I'm not planning on any car shows but just for my own sake. I know it'll probably be over kill like you mentioned but I think I'm going to hit it hard with the M07, I mean it can't hurt right? M07 may not remove any oxidation as it isn't really present but it'll condition the paint won't it?

[JustJesus]

... but I think I'm going to hit it hard with the M07, I mean it can't hurt right?

Your arms will hurt

M07 may not remove any oxidation as it isn't really present but it'll condition the paint won't it?

That's my guess. In that regard, it wouldn't hurt.

[Mike Phillips]

(Skip to the bottom to find the questions)

Hello, long time lurker here I've just made an account and I'm making a post as I'm finally getting around to detailing the single stage paint on my 1984 Mercedes 300d.

I'll mention that I have read a TON of information regarding single stage paints on this forums, including Mike's super in-depth single stage paint thread.

With that being said I feel pretty confident working on the car in question although I do have a few questions for Mike or anyone who can chime in.

Thanks for joining the forum, I think it's the best resource for REAL car detailing information on the ol Internet.

I picked this car up about a year ago and as you can see the paint is in excellent shape all around, with an impressive 230k miles on the clock. An old German lady sold the car to me in Northern California after her husband had passed away; the two of them originally purchased the car new in Germany back in 1984 and had the vehicle shipped on a boat to San Jose California where the two of them lived up until recently.

This vehicle is in very rare condition and it possesses its original 585 Altrot single stage paint job, which is definitely one of the rarest colors in the W123 Mercedes series. I have done literally nothing to the paint in the past year and now I am ready to, most importantly preserve this car's paint, as well as bring it to a showroom finish.


My approach to this vehicle is going to be the following unless advised something else:

1. Waterless wash with microfiber towels to gently remove any dirt/debris
2. Clay the paint to remove any stuck on surface dirt
3. Spend a few days rubbing the paint with Meguiars #7 with a cotton terry cloth (as if my life depends on it)
4. I purchased a Porter-Cable 742XP which I will be using Pinnacle Advanced Swirl remover after step 3
5. After Pinnacle Advanced Swirl removed I will use Pinnacle Advanced Finishing polish
6. After a wipe down I'll wax the paint with Meguiar's Souveran wax

Is this a good approach to this vehicle? Mike I have seen your work on that 1972 Mercedes 280 SE a while back, and this is the approach I think you pretty much used. Although the only thing that concerns me about using the same steps as you did with the 280 SE is that the paint on this car isn't really oxidized at all. Of course there are some cloudy spots here and there, scratches, millions of swirl marks, usual patina all over the car etc. With that being said, do you think the above approach is adequate?

The above process looks good. I would test the finishing polish first and see if it gets the paint to where you like it. It's actually a VERY good polish that uses amazing abrasive technology.

My experience with single stage red paint is it can be a tick on the finicky side. So many people alive now days have never worked much on single stage paint and here's what they don't understand.

The PIGMENT affects the resin and this affects polishability. You can quote me on that.


So test the polish first to a small section and make sure you're seeing the kind of results you hope for and dream about.

Also - the terrycloth I use and recommend in my original article on restoring antique single stage paint is for paint that is chalky and extremely neglected. When single stage paint has a hard shine, then I would use and recommend something more gentle than cotton terrycloth which is somewhat abrasive or scratchy. Instead you can use either a foam applicator pad or a microfiber applicator pad.

Another route to take is to skip the #7 altogether and either start with the polish or with a great one-step cleaner/wax like the BLACKFIRE One Step.

This Caddy has original single stage paint and my buddy and I used BLACKFIRE One Step on it with phenomenal results.

The COMET Technique by Mike Phillips - 1965 Cadillac - Original Single Stage Paint - Slam job

One major thing to point out is that the front passenger fender was replaced some years ago before I owned the car and consequently the fender doesn't have its original paint on that side. Instead its a very good match to the original color and you can't even tell the difference, although unfortunately it has a clear coat over just the passenger front fender.

Thankfully whoever did the job didn't blend the paint into the the passenger door.

What should I do to this fender during my paint detailing, how should I work around it?

You can easily and safely use the Pinnacle products on the base coat/clearcoat fender.

[sonnymorrow]

Thanks for joining the forum, I think it's the best resource for REAL car detailing information on the ol Internet.


The above process looks good. I would test the finishing polish first and see if it gets the paint to where you like it. It's actually a VERY good polish that uses amazing abrasive technology.

My experience with single stage red paint is it can be a tick on the finicky side. So many people alive now days have never worked much on single stage paint and here's what they don't understand.

The PIGMENT affects the resin and this affects polishability. You can quote me on that.


So test the polish first to a small section and make sure you're seeing the kind of results you hope for and dream about.

Also - the terrycloth I use and recommend in my original article on restoring antique single stage paint is for paint that is chalky and extremely neglected. When single stage paint has a hard shine, then I would use and recommend something more gentle than cotton terrycloth which is somewhat abrasive or scratchy. Instead you can use either a foam applicator pad or a microfiber applicator pad.

Another route to take is to skip the #7 altogether and either start with the polish or with a great one-step cleaner/wax like the BLACKFIRE One Step.

You can easily and safely use the Pinnacle products on the base coat/clearcoat fender.

Great input Mike you are the man!

Okay I see what you are saying with the red single stage I will be sure to test an area first before I commit to anything on a large scale. The paint as it is right now is quite shiny judging by the pictures I posted but at a certain angle it is kinda is dull as well if that makes any sense.

With that being said I think I'll take the #7 approach and skip the terry cloth as you recommend; will a folded microfiber towel work instead of an applicator pad such as you did in your 1973 Lincoln Continental single stage write up?

Thank you,

Sonny

[Mike Phillips]

The paint as it is right now is quite shiny judging by the pictures I posted but at a certain angle it is kinda is dull as well if that makes any sense.

That can either be normal oxidation and in a worst case scenario - the paint could be past the point of no return.

Check out this article,

Category 12 - Past the point of no return by Mike Phillips



And this article,

Past the point of No Return - Some paint just cannot be saved

My guess is it's normal oxidation and using the #7 should bring out the full richness of color in the pigments of the paint. (that's one of the things #7 does that other products don't do)

With that being said I think I'll take the #7 approach and skip the terry cloth as you recommend;

will a folded microfiber towel work instead of an applicator pad such as you did in your 1973 Lincoln Continental single stage write up?

Thank you,

Sonny

Kind of... most microfiber towels are soft and fluff and this makes them very limp. When you try to rub them over the paint with any liquid they tend to roll over and you end up fighting the towel. You can try though, I don't know what you have for microfiber towels and there's zillions on the market.

Here's some microfiber applicator pads from Meguiars that will work well for this...

Meguiars Even-Coat Applicator - 2 Pack


Sometimes you can find the above at auto parts stores and even big box stores. You're going to want and need some really nice microfiber towels.

In the last year, we brought in some that I really like. I show them and recommend them in a LOT of my articles. Here's 2 recent articles where I showcase these towels. Even though you don't have a ceramic coating on your car's paint you can also use the tips shared in these articles to maintain your car's finish after the correction and sealing work.


How to maintain a Coated Garage Queen by Mike Phillips






How to safely wash a ceramic coated car by Mike Phillips - Traditional Hose & Bucket Approach

[Mike Phillips]

Also - after any #7 treatment and polishing, to seal this classic paint I'd recommend a traditional Carnauba Paste Wax.

Do you have one?

[sonnymorrow]

That can either be normal oxidation and in a worst case scenario - the paint could be past the point of no return.

Check out this article,

Category 12 - Past the point of no return by Mike Phillips



And this article,

Past the point of No Return - Some paint just cannot be saved

My guess is it's normal oxidation and using the #7 should bring out the full richness of color in the pigments of the paint. (that's one of the things #7 does that other products don't do)







Kind of... most microfiber towels are soft and fluff and this makes them very limp. When you try to rub them over the paint with any liquid they tend to roll over and you end up fighting the towel. You can try though, I don't know what you have for microfiber towels and there's zillions on the market.

Here's some microfiber applicator pads from Meguiars that will work well for this...

Meguiars Even-Coat Applicator - 2 Pack


Sometimes you can find the above at auto parts stores and even big box stores. You're going to want and need some really nice microfiber towels.

In the last year, we brought in some that I really like. I show them and recommend them in a LOT of my articles. Here's 2 recent articles where I showcase these towels. Even though you don't have a ceramic coating on your car's paint you can also use the tips shared in these articles to maintain your car's finish after the correction and sealing work.


How to maintain a Coated Garage Queen by Mike Phillips






How to safely wash a ceramic coated car by Mike Phillips - Traditional Hose & Bucket Approach

Mike I see what you mean with the microfiber towels I'll order some of those microfiber applicator pads right now. As for microfiber towels I already ordered some that you recommended a while ago in another thread "Cobra Deluxe Jr 600"

As for wax, I already ordered some Pinnacle Souveran wax from Autogeek the other day and from what I hear it works great on red cars although mine can be orange at times what do you think?

I think I'm about ready to start on the car soon, you've definitely steered me down the correct path. Very glad I posted this thread Mike, thank you.