I'm SO confused - PPL & Ceramic Coating

[partyelf]

The process can vary a lot from one installer to the next. So for him to say he cannot comment on what other do is right on point.

The actual installation of the ceramic coating doesn't take that long. The absolute minimum that needs to be done is a detailed wash of the vehicule which takes about 2 man hour to do. Then a decontamination of the paint that varies depending on what is actually needed but let's say one man hour as an absolute minimum to do a iron particle chemical decon and a paint degreasing to remove any wax or road film on the paint. Then the coating itself takes about 1 hour per layer of coating. The number of layers needed depends on the product used. I myself use a 1 layer product (Gtechnic Crystal Serum Light). For Cquartz I believe it is a 2 layer process. Could be more if he uses a hydrophobic topper.

So for me, 4-5 hours is a typical install time if the client doesn't want to polish the car, I would say about 40% of my installs are like that. New daily driver cars that have paint in decent condition and people not willing to pay to make the paint perfect. And that is their prerogative, I explain the difference and if they prefer to go that way, I am not gonna argue with them.

Now once you introduce polishing, then all bets are off. First, it allows to do a mecanical decontamination of the paint, which will add about an hour. Then each step of polishing can take between 2 and 5 hours to perform.

Regarding the 3 days with no water... I guess that depends on the product but I have never seen a product asking for 3 days. The way ceramic coating work is that they need to cure. The cure time is usually about a week (7 days). During the first few hours, the coating is vulnerable to water. If you have water drying on the coating it will almost certainly create water spots in the uncured coating any they will become part of the coating. For this reason, installers normally apply a paint sealant on top of the coating to protect the coating from water while it cures. For all the brands I have seen, this vulnerable period is about 12 to 24 hours. Afterward, during the first week, the coating is still vulnerable to chemicals, so you can't wash the car.

If the installer told you 3 days, it is very likelly him being over cautious because most people don't listen to what we tell them. I once installed a coating, explained everything in detail to the client about not exposing the car to water for 24 hours and not washing for a week. I left his house at 5 pm. That night he decided to drive up to the mountains where it was snowing. When he got there he decided to wash the car to remove the snow and dirt... still, when I did his maintenance detail this spring, the coating was still somewhat ok. It lost it's ability to repel water but the protection was still there. Once decontaminated it came back to life. So don't be scared about all these precautions. They are there to ensure the coating can have the best possible chance to bind correctly to the paint and not get damaged while in a vulnerable state, but some water on it should not do much if the install was done correctly.

As for PPF vs coating... for me that is like asking, should I get a sports car or a hummer? Both are great for their own reasons. PPFs will provide the best possible protection against damage like stone chips and scratches. Coatings make cleaning the car super easy and make the car look freshly waxed everytime you clean it. The ability to protect against damage is overhyped by manufacturers. It does help prevent love marks and light swirls but it won't protect agaist heavy damage like scratches and rock chips. Usually, a combination of both is best. Protect the vulnerable area of the car with a PPF and coat the entire car including the PPF.

As for installation steps, the PPF should always be installed first. If you coat first, the PPF installer will have to remove the coating on spot he needs to install the PPF. And you want the coating on the PPF to get the ease of maintenance on the PPF as well.


Personally, I would not get a 3 step correction to instal Cquartz over. If you were installing a 5 or 7 year coating, then it would make more sense, but for a 2 year coating, unless the paint is trashed, a one step polishing is probably good enough. Really depends on both the current condition of the paint and the result you want.

So... to clarify:

1) are you saying the guy who tells me it will be done in a day and half, who is the same guy who tells me he is doing a 3 step paint correction, can not possibly complete the job in that time frame? If that is not possible - he is 'lying'? He is also the same guy who is providing the CQuartz UK and he says he puts "two people on the job".

2) These being my options - the other guy (who can do the wrap and ceramic) is only offering Ceramic Pro, a 5 year warranty. Do you have any thoughts on that product?

[partyelf]

Where Are you located? I'm in West Chester. PM me if you like

I did. Look forward to hearing from you!

[partyelf]

Coatings are not the all the same. Look at the postings by Budgetplan1 on here and Autopia forum. He has probably tried more coatings than anyone and he uses them on the fleet of work vans/trucks at his employment. So he gets to form an opinion on the coatings after several months of real world use, not just right after it was applied. Of the 2 listed I would go for the CQuartz or the OptiCoat. Whenever I see people using Ceramic Pro coatings in postings they don't seem to stick with that brand and you see them using something else a few months later. You never see anyone praising their coatings.

It does take quite a bit of time to coat a car. It can be close to a 5 hour process from beginning to end, so that's nearly a day just for the LSP where a sealant would take less than an hour.

Most coatings can get wet after 24 hour cure time, but you are not supposed to wash it with soap/detergent for about 7 days.

If you are only getting the front end wrapped then just let that guy correct those panels. Pay the other guy to correct the rest of the car and apply the coating. Let him worry about re-cleaning the car.

What is an LSP?

[Coatingsarecrack]

What is an LSP?

Last Step Product. What your using last after polishing usual a wax or sealant


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[Coatingsarecrack]

If heard good things about ceramic pro and was leaning forwards that but then decided to coat myself.


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[Calendyr]

So... to clarify:

1) are you saying the guy who tells me it will be done in a day and half, who is the same guy who tells me he is doing a 3 step paint correction, can not possibly complete the job in that time frame? If that is not possible - he is 'lying'? He is also the same guy who is providing the CQuartz UK and he says he puts "two people on the job".

2) These being my options - the other guy (who can do the wrap and ceramic) is only offering Ceramic Pro, a 5 year warranty. Do you have any thoughts on that product?

No. I am not saying that. 15 man hours, if 2 people are working on it is roughly 7.5 hours of work time.

I think Ceramic Pro overhypes they product like crazy, a bit like that crap: F11 do. But in terms of coatings, I have not seen any evidence Ceramic pro is a bad product. It's probably very decent. If you have the choice between ceramic pro 5 years and Cquartz (2 years), clearly Ceramic pro is a better option... The question is really how much more would it cost?

I am not a big fan of 3 steps polishing on daily drivers. I think it's not necessary. My suggestion would be to get the installer to do a 1 step polish instead, unless the paint is completelly trashed. If you have heavy defects, 2 steps of polishing would be needed. A 3rd step would make the paint shine more... could you see the difference, I don't know.

[fightnews]

Currently living with coated cars and, more recently, had one fully wrapped in PPF and then coated. Too soon to make any judgments on life with PPF'd car, so far so good, but like anything, there are compromises with each.

Things I've found with coatings, although my opinion only and YMMV.
1. Will not protect from chips and will *barely* protect from scratches; very, very light towel marring is the best it can do. Even the most awesome "Diamond Infused 10h coating" is softer than your fingernail.

2. While it can be a PIA to fix a scratch or chip by polishing out scratch or touching up chip and then re-coating, it's kinda a PIA cuz most coatings don't blend well and ya usually gotta re-do the panel.

3. You want paint to be as nice as you find acceptable for the long term due to the somewhat PIA process of going back and re-doing for better quality prep...which I have done before. The whole notion of "locking the defects in for the long term" is somewhat inaccurate as the only thing 'locking them in' is your own motivation, the cost of more product and your time. The degree to which one has to go through the process of 1 step forward, 2 steps back is solely dependent on the coating and it's difficulty/ease of removal....nothing is forever when dealing with coatings, just how much you can/are willing to deal with.

4. Longevity as determined by mfg's claims will vary widely based on your maintenance habits, vehicle usage patterns and climate. Have 2 cars coated with the same combo of products, maintained the same.

- Car 1 is winter driver only, coated in October 2016 (17k miles currently) and the coating will likely last another year or two. Local, short drives only although it did sit outside 24/7 from October 2016 thru April 2019 in a heavily wooded lot. Combo was rated at a suggested 24-36 months, which it will easily surpass.

- Car 2 is daily driver, 80 hard, freeway miles a day year round. Coated in July 2017 (40k miles since then) the coating is fading, especially on lower door, rockers and I re-did it last week, medium polish/compound and then fine polish and re-coat. Same suggested 24-36 month durability but the heavy freeway use in NE Ohio is very hard on vehicles finish. Additionally, the chips, scratches and other defects instilled by daily use meant by 24 months, had to re-do to meet my standards of appearance. Been living with a few minor defects for the past year...stuff happens.

Have never had water spotting issues with either except for stupidly parking under a sweating, overhead copper water line which dripped on the hood and then something came up which meant the car sat out in 90+ full sunlight for 48 hours without me getting a chance to remove water drops which etched the surface. Thing is, did it etch the coating or the paint/clearcoat? All I know is when I polished the car last week prior to coating, the water spots which resisted every water-spot remover or silica-scale remover I tried, came off easily with the medium polish/compound on a light cutting pad, which is all it takes to remove most consumer coatings.

Ceramic coatings really aren't that hard to remove in *most* cases although there are always exceptions or oddball circumstances. Aside from 1 or 2 pro-only coatings, most will come off fine with medium compound and light cutting pad, some may require something heavier and some might come off with a polish along on a light cutting pad.

2017 was a busy Summer as our black Corvette (which did have etched waterspots from back in the sealant days and no amount of heavy compounding with a DA would completely remove) started with Wolfgang Uber (applied Spring 2016) and then got polished off and re-coated with another brand, which I then removed about 4 weeks later to go with another brand. My current daily driver was coated in June 2017 with a non-AG brand and then had that compounded/polished off and was recoated with another brand after only 4 weeks.


Things I *think* I'm gonna find with PPF:

1. Certainly more expensive and more time consuming than a coating, more so in the application phase. You can get away with somewhat less than perfect paint as PPF will cover a certain level of defects, light swirling. While many still do immaculate correction, it becomes a question of "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?", i.e. if you have a bit of light marring under your PPF but can't see it no matter what you use to light it, try to magnify it, does it really matter?

2. The self healing abilities of some PPF brands will give you more flexibility we regards to light swirling, even when underneath a coating. I'm guessing that the thickness of PPF is greater than the somewhat thin layer of a coating so a bit more protection.

3. If I do find something, defect-wise or hitting a brick on the freeway, absolutely no way I can fix myself; will have to go to a pro and that ain't gonna be cheap if wanting a quality job. And it's gonna be a PIA.

4. PPF, no matter the claims of mfg, does have a very slight difference in look as opposed to a coating. If you have a show car with black paint that you want an absolute, crystal clear, 1000% level of clarity and reflection, PPF *may* diminish that just a touch.

As mentioned, my experience with PPF is only about 1500 miles in so these are things that I 'think'...only time will prove to be the true arbiter of the coating v PPF decision FOR ME....everyone is different in needs/expectations and I'm still to early in the experience to provide any definitive answers.

I sent you a PM with links to my notes and thoughts on a variety of coatings as well as the thinking and results of having our new car done in PPF.

PPF, Coatings...I still think we're a ways away from the perfect, all-around solution to everyone's needs, hence my opinion that while there is no universal BEST anything, if you look hard enough that you can find something that you can call 'BEST For You'. Like a wise man says around here, "Find Something You Like And Use It Often".

Can these consumer coatings really stand up to a finishing polish on a finishing pad? The polishes themselves are supposed to remove 3000 grit sanding marks. Is a freshly cured coating harder to remove then wet sanding marks?

[BudgetPlan1]

Can these consumer coatings really stand up to a finishing polish on a finishing pad? The polishes themselves are supposed to remove 3000 grit sanding marks. Is a freshly cured coating harder to remove then wet sanding marks?

Some would I'd imagine. Guess maybe it depends on a variety of things. I know WG Uber came of by hand (removing hi spot) using Menz 3500/WG Finishung Glaze 3 and orange LC flat. Another needed Menz 2400/WG TSR 3 on LC orange to remove hi spot. :shrug:

[fightnews]

Some would I'd imagine. Guess maybe it depends on a variety of things. I know WG Uber came of by hand (removing hi spot) using Menz 3500/WG Finishung Glaze 3 and orange LC flat. Another needed Menz 2400/WG TSR 3 on LC orange to remove hi spot. :shrug:

Really, wow good to know. It's hard to tell if u remove something but the high spot let's u know

[partyelf]

If heard good things about ceramic pro and was leaning forwards that but then decided to coat myself.


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This was helpful - tks!