Menzerna 3800 plus and rupes wool pad

[Manilruben]

My second project was a 10k ridden bike which had awful swirl marks so i ended up with a two step

1 step : Menzerna 400 compound combined it with Rupes blue foam pad finished it with menzerna 3800 plus. I was satisfied with the work . The pic is for your reference

My question to you is will I get the same finish in one step by combining a Rupes coarse Blue wool pad and Menzerna 3800 plus

Very abrasive pad and a finishing polish which has mild cut.




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[Manilruben]

My second project was on a Benelli black which was around 2 year old with lot of swirl marks

After pep I used Rupes Blue foam pad combined with Menzerna 400 and finished it with 3800 plus , the finish was good.

Just wondering if I can combine a finish polish ( menzerna 3800 plus ) with an cutting pad (rupes blue wool pad ) will I get a perfect finish or do I still have to go with a finishing pad all over again please advise




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[Mike Phillips]

Just wondering if I can combine a finish polish ( menzerna 3800 plus ) with an cutting pad (rupes blue wool pad ) will I get a perfect finish or do I still have to go with a finishing pad all over again please advise

"Fibers are abrasives -Mike Phillips"


Do a test spot but remember, fibers are a form of abrasives and can and will mar the paint.

The word "mar" is the kind fluffy word for scratch.

I think I cover this in another article, I'll look it up. I think I'm the only one that has ever covered this actually.

[Mike Phillips]

Here's the article and don't let the title fool you, there's a TON of other info in this thread I put there to educate people new to machine polishing.

Here's what you need to get into machine polishing - Recommendations for a beginner by Mike Phillips



And here's the portion from the above article where I go deep....


Foam pads versus microfiber pads

Below is a list of 5.5" foam pads and 5.5" microfiber pads. Here's the primary difference if you're new to machine polishing and don't know which style of pad to go with.

You can quote me on this statement,

When comparing foam pads to microfiber pads, foam pads will finish out nicer and more consistently on a wider spectrum of paint systems - Mike Phillips


What this means is, cars have paint on them. The paint comes from a paint manufacturer. There are about a dozen paint manufacturers that provide paint to car manufacturers and the re-finishing industry. (re-finishing industry is the local body shop or dealership that fixes the dents in your car and sprays fresh paint on the repaired area so it matches the rest of the car.

Paint systems are not only different in their hardness and softness, or what I like to call polishability, but paints are ALWAYS changing. So there's no simple way to know if the paint you're buffing on is hard or soft without testing and experience, (I cover this in my how to book on page 7)

So when I say, that foam pads will finish out nicer and more consistently on a wide spectrum of paint systems that means

A: For the finishing step, not the compounding step. (look at what I wrote)

B: I used the words wide spectrum because thousands of people will read this and then be buffing on a car somewhere and it will have a "paint system" on it and none of us except the person buffing on this car will know if the paint is hard, soft or somewhere in-between.


Fibers are a form of abrasive
Just like the headline reads, fibers are form of abrasive. A gentle abrasive in most cases but an abrasive all the same. If you put a wool cutting pad on a rotary buffer and then buff on some black paint with some baby oil, after you strip the paint of the baby oil and look at the paint there will be hologram swirl scratches in the paint. They will not have come from the baby oil or the tool, so what put the scratches into the paint? Answer. The fibers that make up the wool pad.

You can extrapolate this out to microfiber pads for orbital polishers. While for some paints, (harder paints), you can both compound and finish out with a fiber/microfiber pad, for other paints, (softer paints), you can compound with a microfiber pad and remove defects but the fibers that make up the pad can and will leave a scratch pattern called micro-marring. That's okay if you do a follow-up step after compounding and re-polish the paint but if you're seeing micro-marring from a microfiber pad then you'll have a high chance of finishing out without micro-marring if you switch over to a foam pad.

And the above explanation is what I mean when I say,


"When comparing foam pads to microfiber pads, foam pads will finish out nicer and more consistently on a sider spectrum of paint systems"


Of course, you never know what you can do until you try.... and then inspect the results. And when inspecting, to measure the true and accurate results you'll need to chemically strip the paint and inspect with a quality swirl finder light or bright overhead sunlight.



Car Detailing History 101

To help understand the history of microfiber pads and when and why they were introduced into the car detailing world, I like to use the Meguiar's Microfiber DA Correction System as an analogy.


Meguiar's introduced this system to change the production detailing industry by getting rid of the universally abused rotary buffer. The production detailing industry uses the rotary buffer for SPEED, not quality. The problem with the rotary buffer is that all to often it leaves the paint filled with holograms.

Holograms = a circular scratch pattern IN the paint caused by the single rotating action of the buffing pad on a rotary buffer.

Holograms mimic the pattern a rotary buffer is moved over the paint. Holograms is a SPECFIC type of scratch pattern only inflicted into paint by rotary buffers, not orbital polishers. Orbital polishers can instill micro-marring and a visible pattern of how an orbital buffer was moved over the paint can be seen on darker colors but this pattern is NOT called holograms. You can call it buffer trails, or buffer haze or buffer shadows, or buffer patterns but it is NOT called holograms.

The idea was to replace the rotary buffer with a free spinning orbital polisher from Meguiar's called the G100 which was a copy of the Porter Cable 7424 orbital polisher, and then later the MT300, which offers the same 8mm orbit stroke length has the G100 (or the Porter Cable), but has a longer body than the G100. (same 8mm free spinning orbital polishing action)

To make up for the loss of direct drive power and speed offered by the rotary buffer, Meguiar's incorporated a microfiber pad or a FIBER pad to assist in faster defect removal. Or you could say this as faster PAINT REMOVAL as removing defects is actually removing paint to level the surface, that is level the surface with the lowest depths of the defects you're trying to remove to create a visually flat and also visually perfect finish. The fibers act as a form of abrasives and aid the actual abrasives in compounds and polishes.


The downside of increasing the aggressiveness or cutting ability of an orbital polisher by introducing a microfiber pad is the risk of introducing micro-marring when the fibers instill their own scratch pattern into some paints, typically softer paints. This tradeoff is considered a net gain as compared to having the detailing industry inflict every car buffed out with a rotary buffer with hologram scratches.


The above is an attempt to explain not only why there are microfiber pads on the market but where they fit into the car detailing or car buffing processes.


Foam pads reduce the risk of micro-marring because they offer a uniform texture of the entire face of the pad, not individual fibers, or loops of fibers in the case of some brands of microfiber pads.

You won't know if a microfiber pad will induce micro-marring into the paint of any car you are going to buff out until you do a Test Spot. One option for detailers that want increased cutting from any free spinning orbital polishers is to START with microfiber pads for the compounding or cutting step but finish with foam pad.



So simple do a Test Spot in one area and then if you REALLY want to know what's going on, chemically strip that area and the area you buffed with foam pad and then inspect with bright light like overhead sunlight or a good swirl finder light.

If you see micro-marring from the fibers stop. If you don't then go for it.


Hope that helps...

[SWETM]

Depending on the paint the blue course wool pad could install scratches. So either 2 step it with another combo or find a more aggressive polish with a less aggressive pad that finish down great. And the only way to say what works is to try it out your self on the paint you are working on with a test spot.

Did you do the finishing polish with SF3800 and the blue Rupes foam pad?

Generally the SF3800 don't give you so much cut. Maybe the SF3500 and the Rupes yellow foam pad would work if you want to correct the bike in the future. Or MC2500 with the yellow foam pad.

[Manilruben]

Thanks mike you absolutely nailed it


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[Manilruben]

I did finish it with yellow pad further the blue was stalling a lot with menzerna 400


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[Manilruben]

I have an issue with the cutting pads I don’t Javed to access to all brands except the ones below

LC CC’s pads
LC micro fibre pads

Which would be best choice for moderate defect removal


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[rlmccarty2000]

Kind of a weird choice using 3800 with the Rupes blue wool pads. I’m not really sure what you were trying to achieve. The wool pad is great for cutting and 3800 has almost no cut. Personally I would not use the two together, but doing a test spot to actually see the results is ideal. The blue wool and Menzerma 400 leave and almost LSP ready finish on some paints (surprisingly).

LC Microfiber cutting pads and Menzerma 2500 works well for removing moderate defects depending on the paint. When using a wool or microfiber pad I always follow up with a foam finishing pad and a finishing polish to remove any haze. Again, let a test spot be your guide.

[Mike Phillips]

Just found that you created 2 threads for the same topic. The other one is in the Show N' Shine forum group.

The reason I looked was because I saw the title to this thread on the forum homepage under RECENT THREADS and because I knew I posted some help to this thread I >clicked< on the thread only to find my posts missing?

So I though,

Hmm.... wonder if he started 2 threads for the same topic and I'm now looking at the "other" thread, not the one I posted to?


So I clicked on your name, and then selected View Forum Posts and BOOM! There it was, duplicate thread for the same topic.


Here's a screenshot so anyone that is not quite sure what I'm talking about - the picture tells the story. Look at the blue circle around the FORUM GROUP the below screenshot is taken from and then look at the forum group you're reading this thread in?





This is called Double Posting and it causes confusion. Besides that, all the info in one thread might not ever be seen by all the people that read the other thread and miss out on good info and visa-versa.


No big deal BUT I am going to merge the two threads.