advancement in sealants and wax's for water spotting

[dlc95]

If I'm not mistaken, 3D Nitro Seal focuses on water sheeting.

[yakky]

Interesting point of view from Mike on what happened at HQ. As always there are two sides to each story, here is mine.

NXT was hyped as the Zaino killer. At the time Zaino had a look that was quite unique and beading that outlasted most products by a very long while.

NXT was supposed be look better and last longer. It did look great initially. It was more glossy and much deeper than Zaino. It really made your paint look like it had another coat of clear on it, much like some of the better coatings. And it did this on less than perfect paint, which Zaino couldn't do.

The issue was that look and the beading didn't make it past a wash or a couple of rain showers. Perhaps some protection remained but to the untrained eye, everything was gone very quickly. Now if it didn't bead from the start, that would be a lot easier to believe. But at the time people were used to M16s unwavering performance.

To me NXT performed like a boring sealant with an extraordinary QD that was mixed in. That QD washed off and you were left with half the package. Rightfully so, people felt duped. Meguiars came out with a quick wax and a detailer that fixed the look and beading issue, temporarily, but the core issue was still there. NXT just did not last.

If you really want to dig into that history, autopia has it all.

[Mike Phillips]

And for those of you that want product that sheet instead of bead water.... maybe some day but even now, here's a thread on our forum and it's all about making water BEAD UP!


Video: Trying P&S Bead Maker for the first time.



Perception is reality


People believe water beading is a good thing.

[dlc95]

@2:30

YouTube

[Loach]

I would love to test out a hydrophilic based coating, just think of how easy it would be in a flooded coating market to think up an entire coating line geared around the idea of hard water spot reduction. Hydrophilic base coats, top coats, maintenance sprays, soaps etc. Gyeon Philic, Philic Pro+, Hydro-Philic, Anti-Bead, Gyeon Sheet. A whole product line thought up in 10 seconds offering something different, something unique, based around solving an issue for a significant coating/paint based problem.

I assume that behavior is the only way you could put up a reasonable case where we would see a reduction in hard water spotting. All of these other products that have mildly hydrophobic behaviors that we've categorized as "sheeting" based, I feel they hold no advantage in real world hard water spot reduction against more hydrophobic ones. I can't tell my sprinklers to get up closer to the paint so it floods the surface in a controlled manner to reduce the beading left behind. I'm left with a mess whether it's M21 or Zymol Carbon.

Hard water spotting damage is the single biggest issue I've found when working with coatings, one bad hit and you're forced to go with a top coat or risk the integrity of the base coating by going with a water spot remover, both solutions by which are not guaranteed to resolve hard water etching. I assume the reason we haven't seen a hydrophilic coating yet by a relatively known company is because there's significant trade-offs going with this type of behavior that outweigh the benefits of any potential spot reduction. But I feel if something works as advertised that solves an issue, we should be able to convince people to use it. But less or mildly hydrophobic products have never shown me an advantage in spot reduction in my environment.

This is all heresy coming from me BTW, you guys know I'm never leaving insane beading behind.

[RamAirV1]

Me?

I always wonder....

What the hell is in the water?


I always teach people to look at the ROOT CAUSE of paint defect problems and when it comes to water spots on paint the root cause is whatever is in the water. Then I think whatever is in the water comes back to us....


I'm sorry I don't have a good answer outside of helping people to focus on the root cause. Meguiar's used to make their waxes sheet water off cars but after the Zaino vs NXT Wax Wars the corpoerate decision was made to make ALL their waxes bead water so all the "experts" would think the protection was "good" and "lasted a long time" even thought the Megs chemist state otherwise. I guess the root cause of the change in chemistry can be traced back to Guru Reports and "The Wax Test" those are the experts that caused Meguiar's to stop making waxes that sheet water.


Car Wax History

The wax wars back from the Zaino/LS1.com days. That brings back memories! Don't hear too much about Zaino nowadays eh? I have not ever had water spotting from rain when using sealants and waxes, to include P21S, Megs M21, ProWax. Then I read about coatings having issues with water spotting so that causes me concern. I have also used Reload and no water spots from it either. I want to try the Sonax coating so I wonder how it does with rain water spotting.

RamAirV1

[The Guz]

I want to try the Sonax coating so I wonder how it does with rain water spotting.

RamAirV1

Never had an issue with spotting after having it on the paint for 1 year. Actually never had any water spotting with any coating I have used.

You can find my review on the Sonax coating on the forum.

[rlmccarty2000]

The US market is still behind the Asian market when it comes to coatings and coating toppers. I know of at least one Japanese company that sells an SiO2 coating topper that is advertised to sheet water. They also sell one that beads water.

[DetailZeus]

I would love to test out a hydrophilic based coating, just think of how easy it would be in a flooded coating market to think up an entire coating line geared around the idea of hard water spot reduction. Hydrophilic base coats, top coats, maintenance sprays, soaps etc. Gyeon Philic, Philic Pro+, Hydro-Philic, Anti-Bead, Gyeon Sheet. A whole product line thought up in 10 seconds offering something different, something unique, based around solving an issue for a significant coating/paint based problem.

I assume that behavior is the only way you could put up a reasonable case where we would see a reduction in hard water spotting. All of these other products that have mildly hydrophobic behaviors that we've categorized as "sheeting" based, I feel they hold no advantage in real world hard water spot reduction against more hydrophobic ones. I can't tell my sprinklers to get up closer to the paint so it floods the surface in a controlled manner to reduce the beading left behind. I'm left with a mess whether it's M21 or Zymol Carbon.

Hard water spotting damage is the single biggest issue I've found when working with coatings, one bad hit and you're forced to go with a top coat or risk the integrity of the base coating by going with a water spot remover, both solutions by which are not guaranteed to resolve hard water etching. I assume the reason we haven't seen a hydrophilic coating yet by a relatively known company is because there's significant trade-offs going with this type of behavior that outweigh the benefits of any potential spot reduction. But I feel if something works as advertised that solves an issue, we should be able to convince people to use it. But less or mildly hydrophobic products have never shown me an advantage in spot reduction in my environment.

This is all heresy coming from me BTW, you guys know I'm never leaving insane beading behind.

Hydrophilic but oleophobic. You could still have your beading, it'd just have to be with little drops of vegetable oil lol. This would be a true 'easy to clean' lsp.

[Mike Phillips]

Half my work on the forum is simply remembering where all the meaty stuff is.

For use later today - I'm still on my first cup of coffee.