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  1. #11
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: advancement in sealants and wax's for water spotting

    Quote Originally Posted by midwestray View Post

    With all the advancements in Paint sealants and wax's, it seem someone would come up with some kind of barrier to stop water spots from adhering and causing damage to paint.

    example: Some people may have to leave their vehicle at the airport for days in the heat of summer etc.

    Also does the chances of water spotting decrease in winter when the sun can't bake it into the paint?

    Again an example: Taking car to a touch less car wash to remove salt spray when the temp is freezing?

    Thanks!

    Ray

    Me?

    I always wonder....

    What the hell is in the water?


    I always teach people to look at the ROOT CAUSE of paint defect problems and when it comes to water spots on paint the root cause is whatever is in the water. Then I think whatever is in the water comes back to us....


    I'm sorry I don't have a good answer outside of helping people to focus on the root cause. Meguiar's used to make their waxes sheet water off cars but after the Zaino vs NXT Wax Wars the corpoerate decision was made to make ALL their waxes bead water so all the "experts" would think the protection was "good" and "lasted a long time" even thought the Megs chemist state otherwise. I guess the root cause of the change in chemistry can be traced back to Guru Reports and "The Wax Test" those are the experts that caused Meguiar's to stop making waxes that sheet water.


    Car Wax History


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  3. #12
    Super Member Kamakaz1961's Avatar
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    Re: advancement in sealants and wax's for water spotting

    I like my BEADS! BEADLIVESMATTER#

    LOL
    CJ
    2013 Mustang GT w/Track Pack 6-Speed Manual
    Save the Manual!

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  5. #13
    Super Member JustJesus's Avatar
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    Re: advancement in sealants and wax's for water spotting

    tastes great. Less filling!

    I'm more into sheeting. [shrug] To each their own

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  7. #14
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    Re: advancement in sealants and wax's for water spotting

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    Me?

    I always wonder....

    What the hell is in the water?


    I always teach people to look at the ROOT CAUSE of paint defect problems and when it comes to water spots on paint the root cause is whatever is in the water. Then I think whatever is in the water comes back to us....


    I'm sorry I don't have a good answer outside of helping people to focus on the root cause. Meguiar's used to make their waxes sheet water off cars but after the Zaino vs NXT Wax Wars the corpoerate decision was made to make ALL their waxes bead water so all the "experts" would think the protection was "good" and "lasted a long time" even thought the Megs chemist state otherwise. I guess the root cause of the change in chemistry can be traced back to Guru Reports and "The Wax Test" those are the experts that caused Meguiar's to stop making waxes that sheet water.


    Car Wax History


    Hello Mike,

    Just read what you wrote regarding how Meguiars ultimately decided to go with a beading action over the more effective sheeting action.

    Well, what a damn shame. If Meguiars knew full well that sheeting was the superior effect over beading, and had the technical data to prove it, they should have stuck with it and continued to offer the superior product and protection.
    The solution to this dilemma would be in the hands of their marketing department to effectively educate the customer base on the superior effects and protection offered by sheeting as opposed to beading. What a lost opportunity.

    "Experts" are a dime a dozen. How many of them are truly accredited and respected as experts on the subject matter?

    Meguiars took the "short-cut" and instead of demonstrating their product and technical superiority, they chose the "low-road" and chased after the quick buck! I get it, its just the way they chose to do business, but what a shame and disservice to the detailing industry!

    Manufacturers today seem to be so desperately looking for any way to stand out from the crowd. Some of the savvy ones should revisit this, conduct some R&D and if valid, develop and offer this superior type of product. What a genuine game changer and benefit to car owners and detailers alike! Lastly, a little integrity would go a long way as well!

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  9. #15
    Super Member rlmccarty2000's Avatar
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    Re: advancement in sealants and wax's for water spotting

    I don’t care if it beads or sheets as I try to remove the water as quick as possible. But sheeting would be better.

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  11. #16
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: advancement in sealants and wax's for water spotting

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Pilot View Post

    Hello Mike,

    Just read what you wrote regarding how Meguiars ultimately decided to go with a beading action over the more effective sheeting action.

    Well, what a damn shame. If Meguiars knew full well that sheeting was the superior effect over beading, and had the technical data to prove it, they should have stuck with it and continued to offer the superior product and protection.

    The solution to this dilemma would be in the hands of their marketing department to effectively educate the customer base on the superior effects and protection offered by sheeting as opposed to beading.

    What a lost opportunity.

    While your sentiment is noble and I completely understand what you're saying you're also on the losing side of the argument. Here's why,


    Perception is reality


    Remember the above. Memorize the above. Never forget the above. Perception is reality whether it is or not. That's how our world works.

    The unwashed masses BELIEIVE water beading is a sign of 2 things,

    1. Protection
    2. Durability



    Any product that does NOT bead water well and for a long time will be labeled by the unwashed masses as an inferior product. Once the consensus is formed, (and it will form), it's game over for SALES of that product.


    Educate the unwashed masses? -->


    Won't happen. Never going to happen. Losing business model. The winning model as proven by all the experts in the car detailing world is to make your product bead water as good or better than Zaino.






    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Pilot View Post

    "Experts" are a dime a dozen. How many of them are truly accredited and respected as experts on the subject matter?
    Good point but your point doesn't matter. Perception is reality and once you have a person designated an "Influencer" their word become the word of god and all masses will march off the cliff with them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Pilot View Post

    Meguiars took the "short-cut" and instead of demonstrating their product and technical superiority, they chose the "low-road" and chased after the quick buck! I get it, its just the way they chose to do business, but what a shame and disservice to the detailing industry!
    You're wrong. Meguiar's tried and tried and tried to educate the masses but it was a waste of time, money and resources. Perception is reality and if your product doesn't bead water really well and for a long time then the masses will say it sucks.


    I do believe it's possible a company could bring out a new "wax" or "synthetic sealant" or "ceramic paint coating" you know, the current three categories of product we use to protect our car paint and take on the difficult task of educating the masses on all the benefits of why a protection product that makes water lay flat is better than a product that makes water bead-up but it will be a monumental undertaking and every time they post a picture of their product on the horizontal surface of a car making water lay flat 1 MILLION Facebook detailers will post a picture of water beading up on their latest detail. And then they'll do it again.

    Heck someone, somewhere is right now posting an AMAZING picture of water beading! And now someone just did it again... and again... and again... and so on and so on....

    WE LOVE HOW WATER LOOKS WHEN IT BEADS UP ON OUR FRESHY DETAILED CAR

    No body loves or even cars how water looks when it lays flat.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Pilot View Post

    Manufacturers today seem to be so desperately looking for any way to stand out from the crowd. Some of the savvy ones should revisit this, conduct some R&D and if valid, develop and offer this superior type of product.

    What a genuine game changer and benefit to car owners and detailers alike! Lastly, a little integrity would go a long way as well!
    Meguiar's is a leader in integrity in this industry but they took their lumps and moved on. They tried and tried and tried and "we" the unwashed masses would not have anything to do with it.


    Go up to any Facebook Group and start collecting all the pictures people post of water beading and then repeat these words to yourself.

    Perception is reality


    Sorry if you don't like what I wrote above but I've been there and done that and like mentioned before, lived it as a Veteran of the Zaino vs NXT Wax Wars.


    Mike Phillips
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  12. #17
    Super Member Desertnate's Avatar
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    Re: advancement in sealants and wax's for water spotting

    In the days of products which would sheet more than bead, what was the indicator the LSP had worn out and needed to be re-applied? The speed of the sheeting?
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  13. #18
    Super Member Eldorado2k's Avatar
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    advancement in sealants and wax's for water spotting

    1st of all, I agree with what Mike just posted...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Pilot View Post
    Meguiars took the "short-cut" and instead of demonstrating their product and technical superiority, they chose the "low-road" and chased after the quick buck! I get it, its just the way they chose to do business, but what a shame and disservice to the detailing industry!

    Manufacturers today seem to be so desperately looking for any way to stand out from the crowd. Some of the savvy ones should revisit this, conduct some R&D and if valid, develop and offer this superior type of product. What a genuine game changer and benefit to car owners and detailers alike! Lastly, a little integrity would go a long way as well!
    As far as these specific comments^
    With all due respect, I couldn’t disagree more..

    There’s so much that could be said that I almost don’t know where to start...

    It’s a shame to hear someone try to say Meguiars “took the low road” when in fact they’ve stuck their neck out for the sake of the detailing world and have always been known for providing quality products at a fair price.

    Stuck their neck out countless times and sometimes don’t get the respect that’s deserved.. What do I mean by that? Well you talk about developing new and innovative products for the betterment of the car detailing world? To say Meguiars hasn’t played a large part in leading the way in regards to innovation of products would be flat out wrong.

    Who was the 1st to introduce microfiber pads for DA polishers?

    Who sold gallon concentrate of Rinseless Wash at probably the fairest price you’ll ever see before long before it became as popular as it is today?

    Who’s the originator of certain products like Last Touch Quik Detailer, and then we see another brand come out of the woodworks with “Final Touch” quik detailer and even make it pink just to top it off? Who’s integrity is in question? Lol.

    Speaking of original products, Meguiars products are produced by them and solely for their line of products. No relabeled stuff inside of the bottles, and not every brand can say that. They even make their own pads. Hows that for originality.

    You’re thirsty for new and innovative products? Well how many detailing brands have you seen consistently try something that’s never been seen before? Stand out from the crowd? Product superiority? Who else has the guts to introduce products such as:

    Meguiars Wash Plus- Talk about taking a chance and sticking your neck out.. How can you accuse them of taking “short cuts” when they put their neck on the line with products like this? Who else would have the guts or imagination to produce a new product like this?



    I don’t think it changed the minds of the masses... But 1 thing it sure wasn’t was a “short cut”

    How about Meguiars Paint Protect-



    This could also be remembered as an innovative attempt. Fairly priced and long lasting which in turn provides good value. Too bad it didn’t meet sales expectations and it’s now discontinued.. A for effort, certainly wouldn’t call it a “short cut” attempt.

    More innovative products? How about Meguiars Ultimate Fast Finish-



    How many top quality detailing brands sell you a gallon of glass cleaner concentrate, that yields 11 gallons of high quality glass cleaner for less than $20 dollars? You can’t even get 24oz. of RTU glass cleaner for under $20 bucks from some other brands... Who’s taking short cuts for fast bucks again?

    Cmon man, too many good people at Meguiars, I’ve been fortunate enough to have met many of them in person and I’m here to say they’re among the nicest most genuine group of people you’ll ever meet. It starts from the top down.

    Sorry for the long post, I just felt the need to set the record straight.advancement in sealants and wax's for water spotting

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  15. #19
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    Re: advancement in sealants and wax's for water spotting

    I know we've had this discussion before, but I think it's great to revisit every once in awhile. Mike I know you posted almost the exact same thing back in 2013 (post #51 of the thread "Re: Why the hype about water beading?"). I don't blame you or anyone else for posting pictures of water beading. In fact I'm sure you wouldn't last long on the forums if you spent your time condemning everyone who posted pictures of water beading on their hood! I just think it's great to be able to have an honest discussion about what is actually best for keeping a clean shiny car vs what makes for a great picture on fb. We're a special group over here, we can handle it

  16. #20
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    Post Re: advancement in sealants and wax's for water spotting

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertnate View Post
    In the days of products which would sheet more than bead, what was the indicator the LSP had worn out and needed to be re-applied? The speed of the sheeting?
    Not speaking for Meguiar's past but I think it should bead oil. We should all be putting Crisco in our spray bottles and taking pictures of that


    My guess is it was a "change your oil every 3000 miles" type situation vs clear visual indicator. You reapplied at regular intervals and that was it. I guess you could suggest the car was becoming harder to clean but think about how subjective that is.

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