Show car shine vs paint protection film?

[FlyinLow]

Just my 2¢: the shop that installed XPel on my Mas in 2014, Modern Image in San Diego, is the go to place for Ferrari and Maserati around here. They're a specialty shop for wraps and PPF, and handle many high end vehicles. I've spoken to them many times, and they have my full trust. They recommend treating it like you would treat the car otherwise, with respect to wax and coating. They use Meguiar's Mirror Glaze compounds, polishes, and waxes, as well as the CarPro line, and so they recommend these.

The Mas always looks fantastic when it is "done", but of course it is white and by nature more forgiving than a dark car. I rarely notice the clearbra, except at the doorhandle wells.

It seems to me, one would want the same product across the entire vic, so that you achieve consistency in reflectivity/light diffraction properties. If I were the PPF manufacturer, I would certainly develop/offer a specific coating or sealant that I know works well with my product, as XPel has. That being said, you need to go with what you're comfortable with.

[FUNX650]

Regarding paint protection films and "show car shine".... it seems that:
1. the "gurus" avoid PPF (I don't believe either Mike Phillips or AMMO NYC or "others I follow" use it). It appears that AMMO NYC puts film (clear bra) on for daily driving and then takes it off for shows.
2. I am not sure why they avoid it. My guess is that show car shine requires wax and wax is not "generally" recommended by (at least some) PPF manufacturers.

What I would be really interested in knowing (assuming that "show car shine" requires wax and wax doesn't go with PPF)... how much objectively are you giving up in shine when you "trade down" from "show car shine"/wax to PPF? That is how many gloss units do you lose in shine in order to gain rock chip protection?

I am completely fine with trade offs/compromises. I don't know what the trade off is here.

I beg to differ:
I have PPF and I really don't see
the "trade off" you're talking about






Bob

[FlyinLow]

It appears that AMMO NYC puts film (clear bra) on for daily driving and then takes it off for shows.

Yup, that's been my impression, too. Larry?

[FlyinLow]

I beg to differ:
I have PPF and I really don't see
the "trade off" you're talking about






Bob

Holy Saran Wrap, Batman! What happened there??

[FlyinLow]

Bob, my bust... is the first image at time of application and the second shot with it applied (and looking amazing on your beautiful NOT white/grey/silver/black vehicle)?

[FUNX650]

Holy Saran Wrap, Batman!
What happened there??

I'm sure you meant the: during and
after photos...of the PPF install?

(and looking amazing on your beautiful
NOT white/grey/silver/black vehicle)?

Thanks...






Bob

[GeekGWCT]

I beg to differ:
I have PPF and I really don't see
the "trade off" you're talking about
Bob

First, wow. Beautiful car.
Second, as mentioned, I am making assumptions. It seems clear that Mike Phillips (and "others") aren't (at least generally and perhaps not at all) using PPF. Why? I don't know. (Not knocking Mike but) Mike may be contractually prohibited from promoting products not sold by Autogeek. However, I am assuming that there are reasons other than contractual that Mike (and "others") are not using PPF when trying to achieve "show car shine". As PPF has obvious benefits for protecting paint, I am assuming (but don't know) that there is some trade off that results in it not being used for show cars.
The use of PPF appears fairly common among the users of the Autogeek forums but (it appears) that Mike hasn't mentioned PPF (at least the acronym) once in over 35,000 posts on this forum. That isn't random.

[FUNX650]

....as mentioned, I am making assumptions.

The use of PPF appears fairly common among
the users of the Autogeek forums

but (it appears) that Mike hasn't mentioned
PPF (at least the acronym) once in over 35,000 posts

That isn't random.

Here's just one example where
Mr. Phillips mentions PPF:
_______________________________________

Re: Meguiar's products and the Clear Bra

"For the most part you wash the car as
normal and only use our paint care products
on the paint portion, not the clear bra portion.

We have a couple of plastic polishes you can
apply to the clear bra and lots of people apply
wax to these as well. We don't ever hear of any
horror stories or adverse effects to clear bras
as long as a quality product is used on it.

You can't of course use rubbing compounds and
things that are abrasive on thin, soft, flexible
plastic films as common sense tells you this will
scratch the plastic.


Here's the skinny...
A clear bra will protect the front of your car
from rock chips and thus protect the paint

A clear bra will get fine swirls and scratches
just like your paint only unlike your paint
you cannot really polish these out.

Danged if you do, danged if you don't."


Mike Phillips
Office: 800-869-3011 x206
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net
_____________________________________________


Bob

[h8dirtycars]

I am completely fine with trade offs/compromises. I don't know what the trade off is here.

I don't know how to measure a gloss unit, but mine is glossy enough for me, as well knowing that I'm protected against chips.

These pics aren't as good as FunX's but I think you can tell. Also you can compare to a dark silver vehicle. Don't know why they didn't insert in right direction.

[GeekGWCT]

Here's just one example where
Mr. Phillips mentions PPF:
_______________________________________

Re: Meguiar's products and the Clear Bra

"For the most part you wash the car as
normal and only use our paint care products
on the paint portion, not the clear bra portion.

We have a couple of plastic polishes you can
apply to the clear bra and lots of people apply
wax to these as well. We don't ever hear of any
horror stories or adverse effects to clear bras
as long as a quality product is used on it.

You can't of course use rubbing compounds and
things that are abrasive on thin, soft, flexible
plastic films as common sense tells you this will
scratch the plastic.


Here's the skinny...
A clear bra will protect the front of your car
from rock chips and thus protect the paint

A clear bra will get fine swirls and scratches
just like your paint only unlike your paint
you cannot really polish these out.

Danged if you do, danged if you don't."


Mike Phillips
Office: 800-869-3011 x206
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net
_____________________________________________

Bob

Thanks.
A few thoughts.
1. I was searching for the use of the acronym "PPF" (and frankly I am not certain the search function works properly or I am using it properly)
2. He is clearly discussing PPF in the post above but no where does he say he ever uses them at all... even on a daily driver/not when attempting to achieve "show car shine"
3. "lots of people apply wax to these as well." Lots of people take their car to a standard car wash (and it is fine as it works for them). He isn't saying HE is applying wax to PPF. No horror stories = good but a lack of a horror story never won any competition.
4. "only use our paint care products on the paint portion, not the clear bra portion." I am not certain what all he is defining as a paint care product but wax is generally included in this definition. If so, I believe Mike's answer is (well, may be):

a. Wax is needed for "show car shine"
b. I only use wax (aka paint care product) on the paint portion of a car and not the PPF portion
c. You can use wax on the PPF and not get a horror story (but not getting a horror story doesn't win you a show car competition).

I may be completely wrong but it seems pretty clear that Autogeek's detailing guru (and others) doesn't use PPF on show cars and doesn't believe "paint care products" (wax?) should be used on PPF.

If that is true, my question is why? Why no wax on PPF? Do you believe that the "self cleaning" (or other) properties mean that the wax won't stay on the PPF? Are you concerned the wax has kerosene or other ingredients that would be harmful to the PPF? Are you concerned that the wax (although not a horror story) would yellow the PPF? Would (for example) Brazilian Ivory Carnauba alleviate this concern?