Two important detailing questions

[Based]

Ok so yesterday I washed, dried, clayed, then polish/wax with the AIO HD Speed. Car looked great but it rained as soon as I finished so it got water spots all over it. I washed and dried it today to get the spots off but now I'm seeing swirls. The car still feels smooth but now I am noticing swirls.

Did I make these swirls while washing it and drying it again? I use the orange mits from the dollar store to wash, with Optimum Car Wash soap. And for drying I use those pro force or whatever brand MF towels from Sam's. Maybe I need to invest in better stuff...


And how should I wash the Lake Country CCS pads? I only used one for my car last night. Can I just use some dish soap or something? I don't really want to buy a product, at least not yet.

[AGOatemywallet]

Polishing your entire vehicle with one pad could be a problem.

Were you at least cleaning the pad on the fly?

Many AIO products have some filling capability, so I suspect that the Swirls were always there and washing removed the fillers...revealing the defects

[FinishingTouchA]

The mitt and towels you're using aren't very high quality. But unless the paint was already in extremely good condition you may not have removed all the defects with HD Speed, it's a good AIO but wont replace a medium/heavy compounding step. I recommend APC or Degreaser for cleaning pads.

[StephenK]

Which CCS pad did you use? What machine? What speed setting as well as arm speed? How much pressure? What kind of car is it?

[mwoolfso]

What type of vehicle is this? Hard paint or soft paint? Is there a chance the water spots were already there and you didn't get all of them out when you polished?

[cardaddy]

Ok so yesterday I washed, dried, clayed, then polish/wax with the AIO HD Speed. Car looked great but it rained as soon as I finished so it got water spots all over it. I washed and dried it today to get the spots off but now I'm seeing swirls. The car still feels smooth but now I am noticing swirls.

Did I make these swirls while washing it and drying it again? I use the orange mits from the dollar store to wash, with Optimum Car Wash soap. And for drying I use those pro force or whatever brand MF towels from Sam's. Maybe I need to invest in better stuff...


And how should I wash the Lake Country CCS pads? I only used one for my car last night. Can I just use some dish soap or something? I don't really want to buy a product, at least not yet.

Well, HD Speed isn't your problem. ;)


Polishing your entire vehicle with one pad could be a problem.

Were you at least cleaning the pad on the fly?

Many AIO products have some filling capability, so I suspect that the Swirls were always there and washing removed the fillers...revealing the defects

:iagree:WITH :whs: x 1,500,000,000

In other words... you just won the how not to do it detail and polish powerball lottery. :)

You should be using AT LEAST 2 pads on the hood, 2 on the roof, 1 on the trunk, 2 if not 3 on each side, and 1 on each bumper. That's 11~12 pads!

Now you don't have to use that many in practice, because you are cleaning your pads on the fly.
You ARE cleaning them on the fly, RIGHT?

By cleaning on the fly you can (in a pinch) do an entire vehicle with 4 pads. If you're using FIFO (First In First Out) by cleaning the first pad after you've done each section, then once half the hood is done (it'll be 3~4 sections) you CLEAN that pad and sit it aside, like on a fan to cool. Then move to pad 2, use it for 4 sections, sit it aside, then move to pad 3, same thing. Then pad 4.

Once you've gone through the pads, Pad 1 should be cool, DRY, and ready to use again.

I agree though that it's likely that the swirls were still there. Of course if you did end up with 100% correction, the mitt and towels you are using will be guaranteed to swirl paint, and especially noticeable on dark and/or soft paints.

Swirls when washing....
Washing is a time when you need to take the utmost care to use as little pressure as you can, and as much foam/soap/shampoo as you can. It's VERY easy to induce swirls when washing.
NO... DO NOT use dishwashing soap! It doesn't have the lubricity of a pH balanced car shampoo, but more importantly, it will strip most LSP's. (Especially AIO waxes like you'd see in HD Speed or say Meguiar's 151 and other AIO polish/wax products.)

Swirls when drying....
OMG... drying is something that I can't STAND doing!
If you think you can get swirls washing, pfffffttt drying will magnify that ten fold. There isn't any real lubricity there, combine that with the chance that there may still be areas that are not 100% contaminate free (and those contaminates end up in your drying towel) then you'll just end up sanding the surface with your drying towel(s).

Best thing when drying is to get a 12amp leaf blower. That or the Metro Blaster (which is really expensive). :eek: When looking at blowers, don't look only at MPH ratings. Look at the CFM ratings and find the one with the highest CFM as WELL AS the highest MPH rating and it'll serve you well.

Combine blow drying with some dedicated drying towels AND PROPER PROCEDURE WHEN DRYING and you'll cut your drying swirls down significantly. I'd suggest not wiping at all, but laying your towel(s) flat, then patting and/or rubbing your open hand on the back of the towel(s) to absorb what water is left after the blowing process.

Even if you don't blow dry, using an open, flat, thick, absorbent, DEDICATED drying towel is your best bet.

The Cobra Guzzler HD drying towel is good. It's foam core, and will soak up a TON of water. That is the only one from Autogeek that I like for any type of drying. Another one would be the "Korean Waffle Weave drying towel" from another supplier (that AG doesn't want us to talk about anymore, even though they don't sell that towel). If you do a Google search on the quoted text it'll be in the top 4 results. ;) It comes in yellow and blue. :) The one below it in that search, (comes in white, has the word river in it) I have... but don't like it NEAR as well.


My first suggestion would be get a good inspection done under good lighting to find where you are with your paint. Next would be a plan of attack with ENOUGH pads to get the job done.

You'll need towels, GOOD towels, and AT LEAST 8~12 for the compounding step, another 6~8 for polishing, and another 4 or so for wiping LSP. If you run across another microfiber sale like the one Autogeek just had, (plus the 20% off on top of that) you can stock up, and get a couple dozen Gold Plush Jr's to get you started. (FWIW, that place that came up on your *G* search with the Korean towels... also has gold towels that you can't tell from the "Jr's" at very affordable prices!!!):dblthumb2:

If you want to invest in a GREAT wash mitt... the Koala unit that's on BOGO now is a MUST HAVE. :props:
Koala Wash Mitt, wool wash mitt, best car wash mitt (http://www.autogeek.net/koala-wash-mitt.html)

Of course all this is just speculation, not knowing what your car is. (IE soft vs. hard paint.) That and if you are using the 2 bucket method, with grit guards. You REALLY should be starting there. Wash bucket, rinse bucket, and a THIRD dedicated wheel bucket. Don't ever, I mean EVER wash your car with the same bucket that you use for washing you wheels. :eek:

Most importantly... have fun. :D

[Based]

Holy ####, 12 pads? That seems overkill...

My car is a 1997 Miata. It has been repainted back in the mid 2000s by one of the previous owners. Idk who did it.

I used the Lake Country CCS pad, orange. Light Cutting. Used the harbor friehgt DA polisher on speed 5.5 out of 6. Hand speed idk how to explain but I think it was slow enough. Took me about 5 minutes to do a 2x2 area with 6 section passes.

The car really looked great even in direct sunlight this morning except for the spots. It wasn't until I was drying the car that I noticed the swirls. My car has actually NEVER had water spots on it before last night out of my entire year of owning it. Maybe because there was no wax on it or something idk.

So I shouldn't use dish soap for cleaning pads? My pad is sitting there still on the polisher with product on it and tinted the color of my paint... I don't want to just leave it like that...

[cardaddy]

Holy ####, 12 pads? That seems overkill...

My car is a 1997 Miata. It has been repainted back in the mid 2000s by one of the previous owners. Idk who did it.

I used the Lake Country CCS pad, orange. Light Cutting. Used the harbor friehgt DA polisher on speed 5.5 out of 6. Hand speed idk how to explain but I think it was slow enough. Took me about 5 minutes to do a 2x2 area with 6 section passes.

The car really looked great even in direct sunlight this morning except for the spots. It wasn't until I was drying the car that I noticed the swirls. My car has actually NEVER had water spots on it before last night out of my entire year of owning it. Maybe because there was no wax on it or something idk.

So I shouldn't use dish soap for cleaning pads? My pad is sitting there still on the polisher with product on it and tinted the color of my paint... I don't want to just leave it like that...

Like I said... don't have to use the full 10, 12, 14 pads... but you DO need to stick to using a pad for 3~4 sections before pulling it out of rotation using the FIFO method.

Using the maximum amount assumes you're using them the proper amount of time and tossing them in pad washer solution.

I've done plenty of vehicles using 4~6 pads during the compounding process. As long as you're cleaning on the fly, you can sit them aside to cool, then come back to them. Just remember, FIFO.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/20135-how-clean-your-foam-pad-fly.html



Forgot about your pad cleaning question after the fact, sorry.

DO NOT use dishwashing detergent in your pads, you will NEVER get it all out. :eek:

Two options.
1: Either put them in a pad cleaning solution when you're finished with them.
2: Use a spray pad cleaner and clean them manually.

Either way you'll need some manual cleaning with a brush and your hands/fingers massaging in the solution, then cleaning/rinsing them under a spray of hot (preferably high pressure water). I have a short piece of cut off water hose on the faucet in my mud sink and just pinch it to get a good strong spray.

You can find dedicated pad cleaning sprays here, XMT 360 for one is a good one.
For a VERY COST EFFECTIVE solution... Ollies has Meguiar's Dynacone pad cleaner for 99¢ every day! :D :props: That's what I use most of the time. MSRP is like $9.99 and if you look around, that stuff runs from $7.21 to over $20 on the Internet. :eek: Needless to say, Ollies price is where you go and get a dozen bottles and call it a good day. :D

If it's a big project though I'll use a bucket full of pad cleaning solution.
For that... Snappy Pad Cleaner mixed with warm water to dissolve it works GREAT.:dblthumb2: You can get 12 packets here on Autogeek for only $12.99.:xyxthumbs: Of course there are tons of other house brands of powdered cleaners as well.
Snappy Clean Pad Cleaning Powder 12 pack (http://www.autogeek.net/snclpadclpo1.html)

Nothing wrong with the orange CCS pad, I have a ton of them. ;) Although, they are not a light cutting pad, more of a light heavy pad. The green pad is much softer, but cuts almost as much, and the white one is nice and firm, but cuts less and IS a light cutting pad. (As well as a polishing pad.)

In fact... the white pad is easily the most versatile pad in the lineup. It'll cut, it'll polish, and is why you should have more of them than any other in your arsenal. ;)

Sounds like your arm speed might have been fine. Good rule of thumb is about an inch per second. Also... your pad rotation should be something around 2 rotations per second. You can, with more arm pressure, slow it down to 1 per second, but you don't want to stop it. Conversely, you don't want it spinning wildly either.

The spots are something that bug me to death. You're right (sorta) thinking that before you put anything on it, it wasn't spotting. What happens with a wax, sealant, coating, is we end up with such crazy "contact angles" and "slip angles" for the water droplets that it beads like crazy, and water just sits there like thousands of tiny magnifying glasses. The sun acts on the droplets and cooks the paint through them, all the while heating the droplets till they evaporate, usually leaving whatever minerals in the water in a nice neat ring on the surface. :(

Hope that cleared it up a bit. :dblthumb2:

[Based]

So I guess I have to buy better mits, better drying towels, and more pads, as well as a pad cleaner. Ok.

I'm so bummed that now my car has swirls again... Oh well I'm still learning. Next time it'll be better and then next time better etc.

So I could get by with just 6 pads on a car using the FIFO method and cleaning them on the fly?

[cardaddy]

Sure! :) With 6... I'd recommend 3 orange 3 white. Those are just your most used pads.

The thing about the swirls is that they may have been there and you just didn't notice them and/or wasn't looking for them. The problem with this hobby errrr addiction.... is that you start looking for, and finding, things that you never knew existed. ;)

I had a guy come over recently (another forum member in fact) and he has a 2012 black Corvette that he said did not have any swirls. He's kept it waxed, and SHINY all this time.

He brought his Ram truck over and I showed him how to buff it, and what you needed as far as the correct lighting to do inspections with.

His garage has four 8 foot fluorescent fixtures, which he thought gave him plenty of light, and the right light.

So he went and bought halogen light so he could better inspected paint.

Next thing I know he was telling me that his Corvette... that he thought the paint was perfect on... is absolutely LOADED with swirls. He had never seen them, he had only seen beautiful, shiny, black, paint.

Welcome to your new addiction. :D

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[Eldorado2k]

So I guess I have to buy better mits, better drying towels, and more pads, as well as a pad cleaner. Ok.


Buy Meguiars Microfiber Wash Mitt. It's only like $5 bucks and great quality.

[Based]

Sure! :) With 6... I'd recommend 3 orange 3 white. Those are just your most used pads.

The thing about the swirls is that they may have been there and you just didn't notice them and/or wasn't looking for them. The problem with this hobby errrr addiction.... is that you start looking for, and finding, things that you never knew existed. ;)

I had a guy come over recently (another forum member in fact) and he has a 2012 black Corvette that he said did not have any swirls. He's kept it waxed, and SHINY all this time.

He brought his Ram truck over and I showed him how to buff it, and what you needed as far as the correct lighting to do inspections with.

His garage has four 8 foot fluorescent fixtures, which he thought gave him plenty of light, and the right light.

So he went and bought halogen light so he could better inspected paint.

Next thing I know he was telling me that his Corvette... that he thought the paint was perfect on... is absolutely LOADED with swirls. He had never seen them, he had only seen beautiful, shiny, black, paint.

Welcome to your new addiction. :D

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Yeah exactly. I thought my car looked pretty good... Before I clayed it and the little white specks that made the car feel rough came off!

I will invest in more pads and better towels and mits. Hoefullt next month when I do it all again it will come out better.

I guess the swirls actually might have still been there... All I have in my garage for lighting right now is cheap ceiling lights from Home Depot and this really bright little flashlight I have to work on cars.

[ScottH]

In addition to all the excellent advice Cardaddy and the others have offered, I'd also suggest using a detailer spray while drying - as a drying agent but also as a lubrucant between the paint and the MF towel. Not to mention most good detail sprays also add a nice shine and all but eliminate water spots while drying, and of course reduces the chance of inducing swirl marks.

ScottH

[cardaddy]

In addition to all the excellent advice Cardaddy and the others have offered, I'd also suggest using a detailer spray while drying - as a drying agent but also as a lubrucant between the paint and the MF towel. Not to mention most good detail sprays also add a nice shine and all but eliminate water spots while drying, and of course reduces the chance of inducing swirl marks.

ScottH
And one of the outright BEST YOU WILL FIND to use when drying is Duragloss Aquawax. [emoji106] [emoji106] [emoji106] [emoji106] [emoji106]

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[dad07]

everyone here has given you some great advice......but I did notice that you said your mazda was repainted.....and that you had "color" residue left on the pad.

That tells me that it was probably repainted with a SS (single stage) paint. I'm curious as to the color of your car( I'm going to guess black).

If my assumption is correct you are working with extremely soft paint and the more you touch it without extreme care your just spinning wheels and going no where.