Taping techniques and advice needed please... [Archive] - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum

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austinz

01-07-2016, 12:00 PM

I'm interested in feedback on taping techniques and process when preparing to correct a car, particularly time saving tips, product recommendations and technical insight on challenges (weather/humidity/time effects, shelf life of tape, how much you actually use on typical coupes/sedans, certain types of trim known to be challenging from a masking or finish adhesion perspective, techniques for small things like washer sprayers, do you tape with some overlap on the paint, for example).

I've done a fair amount of hobbyist work and been through Mike's books and videos, along with a heavy bit of time searching archives here and elsewhere, but I'm always wanting to learn more and share tips if I can.

My latest challenge is my own personal Jet Black E39, which I ended up using the two types of tape I had on hand and spent a good (albeit relatively lazy paced) 2+ hours taping up for a correction. I do know how to pull trim and am well-versed with the car, but I could definitely use some pointers and I need to stock up on a few different sizes, as I am out now. So, I thought why not ask what everyone's current feedback is?

dcjredline

01-07-2016, 12:11 PM

My brain hurts from all those questions but that isnt your fault lol

I use 1/2, 3/4, and 2" tape. I cant seem to put into words my tips to taping things, I would have to show you really. Sorry I cant be more help in that regard

Mike Phillips

01-07-2016, 12:24 PM

I pretty much have an article on every topic related to car detailing and quite a few on boat detailing.

When I want to find one of my articles, the fastest way it to go to Google and type in a few key words and then my name, mike phillips and then hit the search button.

Just did that now...

Went to Google (https://www.google.com/)

Typed in these words,

how to tape off a car mike phillips

Came up with these articles and videos...

Video: How to tape-off car trim before machine polishing (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-car-garage-how-videos/48329-video-how-tape-off-car-trim-before-machine-polishing.html)

How to tape-off a car before machine polishing (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/80865-how-tape-off-car-before-machine-polishing.html)

Burning Tape (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/80428-burning-tape.html)

Tip: How to pull tape off car paint (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/62803-tip-how-pull-tape-off-car-paint.html)

How to cover and protect a convertible top before machine buffing (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/48328-how-cover-protect-convertible-top-before-machine-buffing.html)

The Beach Towel Tip (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/30894-beach-towel-tip.html)

The Soft Flannel Bed Sheet Tip (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/34828-soft-flannel-bed-sheet-tip.html)

3M Automotive Performance Masking Tape 3 Pack (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-auto-masking-tapes.html)

Meguiars Professional Masking Tape (http://www.autogeek.net/meguiars-masking-tapes.html)

And when you attend my Competition Ready 3-day detailing class (http://www.autogeek.net/detailing-boot-camp.html)in a few weeks I'll show you most of the above in person.

:)

Audios S6

01-07-2016, 12:42 PM

Mike has a video of taping up an old porsche. I use everything from 1" to 3" and also have the 3M vinyl tape I think it's 1/4" and very flexible, works great for clearbra edges and other skinny seals.

It also depends on what level of perfect you are going for. I normally think of tape as protecting trim. If I don't get the last 1/8" of paint next to the trim perfect, it's not an issue for daily drivers. Even at a show, 99.9% of people are looking at the center of the panel, only OCDers are looking for swirls in the last 1/8" of paint.

expdetailing

01-07-2016, 12:59 PM

Ouch! Two hours! Maybe, condition some of the trim before hand instead of after the paint correction, that way any accidents are easier to clean-up.
Taping should be done in many instances, and it's unavoidable sometimes. However, consider where you Need to be taping versus where you Would Like to tape. What I am saying is, consider taping less often where you don't Need to.

GSKR

01-07-2016, 04:52 PM

Jaretr1

01-07-2016, 05:20 PM

Ouch, two hours! Wholly smokes!

I try to only tape trim that can be stained by compounds or polishes and are in an "impact zone", or where my pad might overlap the trim while working an area. If a window for instance is flush against a body panel with no trim, no need to tape that as glass isnt going to get stained. Same thing with a painted pieces. I only tape what I could possibly damage or stain, otherwise I do not tape.

Mike Phillips

01-07-2016, 05:28 PM

My latest challenge is my own personal Jet Black E39, which I ended up using the two types of tape I had on hand and spent a good (albeit relatively lazy paced) 2+ hours taping up for a correction.

I do know how to pull trim and am well-versed with the car, but I could definitely use some pointers and I need to stock up on a few different sizes, as I am out now. So, I thought why not ask what everyone's current feedback is?

2 hours is a long time to tape up a car but speed comes from experience.

The FASTEST guys I know when it comes to taping off a car are painters. :D I've seen a painter tape off a car in less than 30 minutes.

Big picture is this....

In my opinion and in my experience it's SAFER to tape off a car and FASTER to tape off a car versus risk causing damage to thin paint, raised body lines, corners or edges.

And if the car has any type of the CURSED pebble textured plastic trim then I'd much prefer to cover it up than try to remove accidental wax and polish off the trim later.

Jeff aka GSKR is a great detailer and has years of experience so he can get away without taping off but I've been doing this all my life and I still tape off. Mostly to avoid any issues when working on OTHER PEOPLE'S EXPENSIVE CARS.

Here's a really good how-to article with LOTS of tips and PICTURE to show you how....

How to tape-off a car before machine polishing (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/80865-how-tape-off-car-before-machine-polishing.html)

Inspect the paint first
Before buffing out a car first inspect the paint for issues that are already present. Things like burn-through on edges and corners. This is especially important on muscle cars, streetrods and classics and basically anything built before the mid-1970's. The reason why is because cars built back then don't have the luxury of being designed and assembled like modern cars and where body panels come together they won't be perfectly aligned. This means the edge of the hood may sit higher than the edge of the fender and it's this high side you want to inspect to see if anyone that has buffed the car out BEFORE you wasn't careful and burned through the paint on the sharp edges.

Take note of pre-existing damage
If you find any places where the paint has pre-existing damage, be sure to point it out to the owner of the car and if you're using an inspection form like my VIF then mark it down on the form.

Tape-off after performing the normal 7 steps
After you do the 7 normal steps before buffing out a car, nows the time to tape off any raised body lines, edges, trim, emblems and especially and plastic surfaces that could be stained by compound or polish. It's also a good idea to tape-off and cover any fresh air intakes in front of the windshield as well as wiper arms to avoid spatter dots while machine buffing.

This Nova has single stage urethane paint which will tend to be softer than a urethane clearcoat. This Nova also has a LOT of raised body lines creating the design of the body panels hard edges forming the shape of the body panels.

Soft paint and raised body lines mean we have to be carefully when machine compounding or we could burn through. To avoid any mistakes, we taped-off all the raised body lines and edges of body panels using 3M Blue Vinyle Tape.

Technique Tip
When taping off a car, start by anchoring the end of the tape to the area you want to protect and then pull out 2-3 feet of tape in your other hand.

Use the hand that's holding the roll of tape to steer the tape as you use your other hand to press the tape firmly against the paint. This is how steer tape follow curves and also straight areas.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2412/1966_Orange_Nova_033.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2412/1966_Orange_Nova_034.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2412/1966_Orange_Nova_035.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2412/1966_Orange_Nova_036.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2412/1966_Orange_Nova_037.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2412/1966_Orange_Nova_038.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2412/1966_Orange_Nova_039.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2412/1966_Orange_Nova_040.jpg

Classic cars like this 1966 Nova have what are called fresh air grills right in front of the windshield. You CANNOT get into these to remove splatter from compound or polish so carefully tape these ares off before buffing. It's also a good idea to cover up wiper-arms so you don't have to come back and use a toothbrush to remove splatter dots of these components.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2412/1966_Orange_Nova_053.jpg

Here' you an see the edges of the body and the trunk lid are all protected using 1/4" 3M Blue Vinyl Tape.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2412/1966_Orange_Nova_054.jpg

De-Taping
After compounding we de-taped the car. Here's why....

1. Machine polishing is less aggressive than compounding so there's less risk of burning through the paint.

2. By removing the tape and then polishing we will remove the tape-line plus polish the paint under the tape to even out the gloss and clarity of the paint that was not compounded.

De-taping the Nova...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2412/1966_Orange_Nova_071.jpg

Mark, (from Canada) and Frank carefully removing 3M Blue Vinyl Tape....

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2412/1966_Orange_Nova_065.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2412/1966_Orange_Nova_066.jpg

Sherman removing tape...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2412/1966_Orange_Nova_067.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2412/1966_Orange_Nova_068.jpg

Craig removing tape off the hood....

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2412/1966_Orange_Nova_069.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2412/1966_Orange_Nova_070.jpg

:xyxthumbs:

Mike Phillips

01-07-2016, 05:30 PM

One thing I always keep in mind and share with others is when buffing out a car you never know who's buffed it out before you. The people that potentially sanded and buffed this car after it was painted and the people that have buffed this car since then or ANY car you're working might not be as careful as you and I will be.

It's completely possible some other detailer didn't tape off edges, maybe they used a really aggressive compound on a wool pad? It's possible they got away with it but now somewhere on this car the paint is what I call,

Whisper Thin

So while an edge or corner or even the flat open area of a panel looks perfectly fine, you or I come along and make a single pass even with a fine cut polish by hand and burn through the whisper thin top coat to expose the primer underneath.

The other guy caused the problem but guess who gets the blame?

Each person can decide if they want to tape off the care they are detailing or not. When it's a car I'm responsible for and it,

A show car.
Has single stage paint.
Has been sanded and buffed previously.

For the above three factors, I'm going to carefully tape off any raised body lines, edges and corners.

Just to note, this car had a burn through either around the good or the trunk lid before we started and I pointed it out to the owner Thom so he knew it was a pre-existing issue.

I've worked on a lot of classics, muscle cars and streetrods in my life as it's my preference so I know about mis-aligned body panels and the risks they bring to the project.

New cars have a lot of black plastic trim that also needs to be protected or you'll end up staining.

Then there are some cars that just are prone to burn-through like the Porsche 911. In this write-up, before compounding the paint I not only taped off the raised body line but took pictures of the raised body lines I taped off to help others avoid a real common mistake with these cars and that's burn-through.

Whenever I buff out one of these cars the FIRST thing I do is inspect for burn-through because it's so common with these cars because other detailers are NOT careful.

Lady in Red - 1986 Porsche - 4-Step Process (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/71247-lady-red-1986-porsche-4-step-process.html)

See the two raised body lines?

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2071/1986_Porsche_911_SC_Cabriolet_011.jpg

and from my write-up.....

A tip for buffing out Porsche 911 models
Every time I buff out one of these cars the first thing I do is look to see if the other detailers before me have already burned through the 2 distinct raised body lines on the hood. Right here where I'm pointing with my finger or anywhere down the hood.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2071/1986_Porsche_Mike_Phillips_006.jpg

1//4" Blue Vinyl Tape by 3M
Mike is luck in that so far no one has burned through the paint anywhere and I'm not going to be the first. The remedy is to use some 3M Blue Vinyl Tape and run it down the top of the raised body line like this...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2071/1986_Porsche_Mike_Phillips_007.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2071/1986_Porsche_Mike_Phillips_008.jpg

A few precautionary strips of blue vinyl tape prevents embarrassing and possibly costly burn-through....

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2071/1986_Porsche_Mike_Phillips_045.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2071/1986_Porsche_Mike_Phillips_046.jpg

I have a 2014 BMW 535i to buff out tomorrow. From what I can see there's not too much to tape-off but anything that looks like a potential issue will get taped-off.

To me it's faster to spend a little time up front taping and covering risky areas and components to protect them and to also have to spend time afterwards trying to clean up compound, polish and wax residue off them...

:)

GSKR

01-07-2016, 05:53 PM

2 hours is a long time to tape up a car but speed comes from experience.

The FASTEST guys I know when it comes to taping off a car are painters. :D I've seen a painter tape off a car in less than 30 minutes.

Big picture is this....

In my opinion and in my experience it's SAFER to tape off a car and FASTER to tape off a car versus risk causing damage to thin paint, raised body lines, corners or edges.

And if the car has any type of the CURSED pebble textured plastic trim then I'd much prefer to cover it up than try to remove accidental wax and polish off the trim later.

Jeff aka GSKR is a great detailer and has years of experience so he can get away without taping off but I've been doing this all my life and I still tape off. Mostly to avoid any issues when working on OTHER PEOPLE'S EXPENSIVE CARS.

you hit it on the head with experience and speed.

:xyxthumbs:

Eldorado2k

01-08-2016, 02:21 AM

@Mike Phillips. Thanks for all that great information!

Mike Phillips

01-08-2016, 10:10 AM

@Mike Phillips.

Thanks for all that great information!

Your very welcome. :dblthumb2:

And for anyone reading this into the future, the two how to articles I shared in this thread are a great example of the difference between a discussoin forum and Facebook.

With a forum you can share pictures in a linear manner with text that goes with the pictures to show teach you what to do with the pictures re-enforcing the information. You can format the text to make it easier for the human eye to locate and read the more important text.

With Facebook you "yes" you can share a picture but not in a linear manner like you can with a forum. Also all the text is in a single tiny box with no ability to format text. So it's just a block of text and then some pictures. Kind of works but it will never work as well as a real discussion forum when it comes to learning.

FWIW

:)

austinz

01-08-2016, 10:35 AM

Thanks everyone especially Mike for the detailed and helpful feedback. Mike, I think you are spot on that painters have it down; I've seen them work and it is amazing. I can lay a straight line, but the curves are challenging, and I also ran into adhesion issues with the super thin green 3m body tape on some the body side trim that is well treated. Plus my 2 hours included bathroom breaks, lunch and a few phone calls. It's my baby so I take my time - I'll definitely need to speed it up for pro work. You breathe on that damn Jet Black and a tiny dust speck leaves a scratch. I swear - I'm going as touchless as possible in the future. I'll dust with the blaster or I may put it in a bubble. I'm coating the hell out of this thing for sure.

I find that I read Mike's articles (and other great threads) and videos several times. I go back for specific things to reinforce if I'm on track. Helps to always have cars on hand too :xyxthumbs:

austinz

01-08-2016, 10:38 AM

Mike Phillips

01-08-2016, 10:48 AM

Additional excuses for my slow taping: I'm also working on documenting the before/after meter readings on the paint not only for my own archive on the car but also to make a template of a document for maintenance cars moving forward.

I like the idea of a history of the cars I work on, no matter how long that timeline is. I guess it is the project manager in me. :D

Nothing wrong with doing all of the above and in fact when I first started out and started getting series about car detailing I kept records for all the cars I detailed.

:)