New black BC/CC paint job - what to do?

[langsbr]

Hi Mike & all,

I've been lurking here for a while, just absorbing all the information and trying to learn. I want to start by thanking Mike as the information he shares is beyond amazing! Anywho, on to my question.

I recently had my car re-painted. It's Honda/Acura NightHawk Black Pearl. The body shop did a great job in my opinion, and I have no complaints considering everything that was done, and the price I paid.

They wetsanded (1000, 1500, 2000, then 3000), cut and buffed the hood, roof, trunk, and 'top half' of the doors and it looks great. I don't see any OP at all. The bottom part of the doors has some though (which I expected since it hasnt been sanded), and I don't feel comfortable wetsanding and using a rotary to cut and buff, as that's a bit beyond my expertise level. I can have the body shop do it, but I'd also like to say I did something with regards to how the car looks, if that makes any sense.

My plan was to use the CarPro denim OP pads to reduce orange peel, and then polish the whole car. I've found Mike's 'How to detail your new car' but that refers to a new OEM car. Is there a guide for 'steps to take on your newly painted car?' The painter told me there was plenty of clear (3 coats heavy enough for sanding and cut/buff) so I would think that would change the approach vs OEM.

Also, Mike, is there a process or procedure you'd follow? For example, first reduce the OP, then polish, then glaze, then LSP? I know the old "wait 30 days for wax" and I'm fine with that - the car has been garaged since the painting has been completed.

Time is not a concern as the car can sit as long as it takes me - I'd rather it take longer and look better.

I have a PC 7424XP and have comfort using that on existing OEM finishes, and figured I'd try the CarPro stuff, unless I should just bite the bullet and try wetsanding.

Any recommendations or suggestions?

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Mike & all,

I've been lurking here for a while, just absorbing all the information and trying to learn. I want to start by thanking Mike as the information he shares is beyond amazing!



Thank you and welcome to the forum!








Anywho, on to my question.

I recently had my car re-painted. It's Honda/Acura NightHawk Black Pearl. The body shop did a great job in my opinion, and I have no complaints considering everything that was done, and the price I paid.

They wetsanded (1000, 1500, 2000, then 3000), cut and buffed the hood, roof, trunk, and 'top half' of the doors and it looks great. I don't see any OP at all.

The bottom part of the doors has some though (which I expected since it hasnt been sanded), and I don't feel comfortable wetsanding and using a rotary to cut and buff, as that's a bit beyond my expertise level.

I can have the body shop do it, but I'd also like to say I did something with regards to how the car looks, if that makes any sense.



Makes perfect sense.





My plan was to use the CarPro denim OP pads to reduce orange peel, and then polish the whole car. I've found Mike's 'How to detail your new car' but that refers to a new OEM car.

Is there a guide for 'steps to take on your newly painted car?' The painter told me there was plenty of clear (3 coats heavy enough for sanding and cut/buff) so I would think that would change the approach vs OEM.



Have you seen this article?


How to remove Orange Peel using a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/69156-how-remove-orange-peel-using-porter-cable-dual-action-polisher.html)







Also, Mike, is there a process or procedure you'd follow? For example,


first reduce the OP,
then polish,
then glaze,
then LSP?

I know the old "wait 30 days for wax" and I'm fine with that - the car has been garaged since the painting has been completed.



I'd follow the above first three steps and wait till after the 30 day mark to seal the surface of the paint.

What do you have for compounds and polishes?






I have a PC 7424XP and have comfort using that on existing OEM finishes, and figured I'd try the CarPro stuff, unless I should just bite the bullet and try wetsanding.

Any recommendations or suggestions?



If it were me and I already owned a Porter Cable 7424XP then since it's been repainted and the painter has already stated there's 3 good coats of clearcoat, I'd go ahead and machine wetsand using #3000 grit followed by #5000 grit 3M Trizact sanding discs.

First #3000 and #5000 are very safe and only remove small amounts of paint.

Second, when you finish out with #5000 grit you should be able to easily remove your sanding marks using nothing but a Porter Cable DA polisher.


Just don't sand next to edges, corners or close to body lines.

Here's why...

It's easy to sand paint in these areas.... the tricky part is removing the sanding marks with a free spinning tool. Just like it's more difficult to maintain pad rotation to remove swirls around edges, corners and body lines it's more difficult to remove sanding marks.

So stay about 3/4" away from any edge, corner or body line and you shouldn't have any problem removing #5000 sanding marks over the rest of the paint using only your PC.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

Here's an article on machine wet sanding or damp sanding


Damp-Sanding Tools, Tips and Techniques by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/25915-damp-sanding-tools-tips-techniques-mike-phillips.html)



It's long but it's in-depth.

If you want to stay Uber safe then below is a simple approach and just spend more time sanding.

Here's the deal, we sell the 3M Trizact #5000 grit sanding discs in 5" which will fit any 5" backing plate on a Porter Cable.

Normally you want to use a foam interface pad between the backing plate and the sanding disc to make sanding smoother and reduce the cut.

If you want more cut, say to knock down the very tops of the orange peel then you DON'T use a foam interface pad. This focuses the sanding to just the top of the hills instead of also sanding the low valleys that make up orange peel texture and it's not that "un-smooth" since the Trizact is a foam backed disc.

This would be the safest and most cost effective method to try to sand on your own. Since #5000 grit is very NON aggressive you just spend more time sanding, use more discs and work slower but work very very safe.

If you want to use get a foam interface pad then Griot's makes a 5" Interflex pad. I'll have to go out into the garage and check to make sure the hook n loop is compatible so let me know if you're interested in this approach.

You'll need...


3M Trizact 5 Inch 5000 Grit Foam Disc 30562, 3m spot repair discs, 3m sanding discs (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-5000-grit-5-inch-discs.html)


Plus a spray bottle of water with a few drops of soap in it. Then mist some water onto the panel and run the Porter Cable over the paint on the 5.5 speed setting.

Sand, then inspect when you're happy with how flat the paint is start buffing.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

Here, just took a few pictures to show you what you need. At this time we don't carry the #3000 Trizact in 5" only in 6".

We carry both #3000 and #5000 in 6" but you'll need a 6" backing plate to use them.

Here's what I would do since you "likely" have a 5" backing plate on your PC, if not you want and need one anyways to burn and turn 5.5" pads.


In the below picture you can see,

Griot's Garage 5" Interflex pad
3M Trizact #3000 in 6" size (the box on the right)
3M Trizact #5000 in 5" size (the box on the left
6" sanding disc that I traced a 5" diameter circle onto using the 5" Griot's Interflex pad and the leftover from a 6" sanding disc after I cut out a 5" disc.
A Griot's 5" Interflex pad
A 3M Trizact 5" #5000 sanding disc.

http://www.marine31online.com/gallery/data/526/5_inch_Trizact_001.jpg



Here's the Griot's 5" Interflex pad with the 5" #3000 disc I cut out attached.

http://www.marine31online.com/gallery/data/526/5_inch_Trizact_002.jpg


Here's the other side,

http://www.marine31online.com/gallery/data/526/5_inch_Trizact_003.jpg



And here I'm showing how the Griot's 5" Interflex pad fits on the 3M #5000 sanding disc.

http://www.marine31online.com/gallery/data/526/5_inch_Trizact_004.jpg

http://www.marine31online.com/gallery/data/526/5_inch_Trizact_005.jpg

http://www.marine31online.com/gallery/data/526/5_inch_Trizact_006.jpg


Here's the Interflex pad with the sanding disc attached to the backing plate.

http://www.marine31online.com/gallery/data/526/5_inch_Trizact_007.jpg

http://www.marine31online.com/gallery/data/526/5_inch_Trizact_008.jpg



The above is a very safe way to go as well as cost effective for doing this type of work.

Then of course you atach the Interflex pad onto a 5" backing plate on your Porter Cable and you're ready to knock down orange peel. Or for better and faster orange peel removal don't use the Interflex pad.


A few drops of your favorite car wash soap in a 32 ounce spray bottle of clean water.

http://www.marine31online.com/gallery/data/526/5_inch_Trizact_009.jpg



With this simple set-up you're a sanding machine!

http://www.marine31online.com/gallery/data/526/5_inch_Trizact_010.jpg




Hope that helps...

On Autogeek.com

Griot's Garage 5" Interflex pad (http://www.autogeek.net/griots-boss-5-inch-innerflex-pad.html)

3M Trizact #3000 in 6" size (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-6in-hookit-foam-discs.html)

3M Trizact #5000 in 5" size (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-5000-grit-5-inch-discs.html)

Porter Cable 7424XP Dual Action Polisher (http://www.autogeek.net/porter-cable-7424xp.html)

Dual-Action Hook & Loop Flexible Backing Plate 5" (http://www.autogeek.net/lc43125.html)

Pinnacle XMT Gel Shampoo & Conditioner (http://www.autogeek.net/xmt-shampoo-conditioner.html)




:)

[langsbr]

Wow - I shouldnt be surprised at the response because I've read so much of your stuff - so thank you!

I think I will give the 3000 & 5000 a try. Curious - do you recommend it over the CarPro denim pads just because I know there is enough paint, or because it's faster also?

Once I've completed the damp sanding and move to compounding and polishing, what would you recommend? I have a few things already, but am not opposed to purchasing something that works better or easier.

M105
Megs Ultra Compound
Megs Ultra Polish

I also feel like there are 10 million different types of pads. All of the pads I have now are very old and need to be replaced and have probably suffered overuse from poor knowledge. I know I read on a different article you wrote that with the PC, thinner is better. Is there a type of pad you'd recommend specifically? I'd also like to try 'jeweling' the paint, as the Honda NBP has a nice blue metallic look when polished up.

If jeweling is done, would you still glaze it afterwards? Jeweling is still a 'polishing' step, right? I do have some Megs #7 glaze - is there a better alternative?

I recall you recommended a Menzerna cleaner wax for jeweling - would you still suggest that here, and if so, would I use that in place of a glaze, or still use a glaze? I wasn't sure since it is a wax.

Thanks again! I have the next 2 weeks off so I can't wait to get started and post some pics!

[Mike Phillips]

Wow - I shouldnt be surprised at the response because I've read so much of your stuff - so thank you!

I think I will give the 3000 & 5000 a try. Curious - do you recommend it over the CarPro denim pads just because I know there is enough paint, or because it's faster also?

Once I've completed the damp sanding and move to compounding and polishing, what would you recommend? I have a few things already, but am not opposed to purchasing something that works better or easier.

M105
Megs Ultra Compound
Megs Ultra Polish



The above will work. Use either the M105 or the Ultimate Compound, don't need to use both. The car on the label of the Ultimate Compound was a Mercedes-Benz Extreme Makeover we did back when I was at Meguiar's.





I also feel like there are 10 million different types of pads. All of the pads I have now are very old and need to be replaced and have probably suffered overuse from poor knowledge. I know I read on a different article you wrote that with the PC, thinner is better. Is there a type of pad you'd recommend specifically?




Like I said years ago....

Thin is in...


And you're in luck. The new ThinPro pads are just the ticket for what you want to do.

Lake Country ThinPro Foam Pad System 5.5 Inch 6 Pack - Your Choice! (http://www.autogeek.net/lc-5-tp-combo.html)

You can mix and match to get a 6 pack of pads and I always tell guys that more pads are better and let your budget be your guide.

I'm pretty sure you can pull these sanding marks out using the orange cutting pad. But if you want to get one or tow of the gray extreme cutting pads go for it.

Here's what I would get,

4 - 5.5" Orange pads --> Compounding out your sanding marks
4 - 5.5" White pads --> Machine polishing after compounding - First polishing step.
2 - 5.5" Black pads --> Machine polishing second polishing step or machine waxing
2 - 5.5" Red pads --> Machine Jeweling or machine waxing


I think if you compound with the orange, follow up with the white pads with the polish you can stop and inspect at this point.

If the paint looks perfect go to wax.

If you see room for improvement you can re-polish using the same polish but the softer black finishing pads.

I think after either of the above approaches to finishing out the paint will look so deep, dark and glossy that you'll be ready to go to wax and then stick a fork in her and caller done.






I'd also like to try 'jeweling' the paint, as the Honda NBP has a nice blue metallic look when polished up.

If jeweling is done, would you still glaze it afterwards? Jeweling is still a 'polishing' step, right? I do have some Megs #7 glaze - is there a better alternative?



Jeweling is cool to talk about but the reality is it adds a whole extra step to any process and by the time you apply a coat of wax you would probably never see a difference using a PC.

Just my take...

You don't need or want to use the #7 after the last polishing step with the UP.





I recall you recommended a Menzerna cleaner wax for jeweling - would you still suggest that here, and if so, would I use that in place of a glaze, or still use a glaze? I wasn't sure since it is a wax.



I wrote one time about one product and I thought it was so much more than a cleaner/wax that I called it a jeweling/wax but it's not available in the U.S.

Here's what you want to do...

Tackle just one lower door panel. Work through the entire process, sand, compound, polish till your happy and then wax.

See how long it takes you and how much work it is and then you'll have a guide to go by to tackle the rest of the car PLUS you won't burn out.


:)

Thanks again! I have the next 2 weeks off so I can't wait to get started and post some pics![/QUOTE]

[axel06]

:buffing::buffing::buffing:

[langsbr]

I was finally able to work on my car today. The body shop said they wetsanded, cut, and buffed the hood, roof, trunk, and top half of the doors, and it surely looks that way.

Top half of rear door:
http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac225/lansgsbri/TL%20Paint%20detail/01_Tophalfreardoor_zpsftptg9n0.jpg

Bottom of rear door - the orange peel was pretty bad:
http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac225/lansgsbri/TL%20Paint%20detail/02_lowerreardoorOP_zpsxza069ig.jpg

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac225/lansgsbri/TL%20Paint%20detail/03_lowerreardoorOP2_zpseqres84z.jpg

I used Mike's suggestion and started with 3500 trizact and then 5000 trizact:

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac225/lansgsbri/TL%20Paint%20detail/04_35005000_zpskl7nvktt.jpg

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac225/lansgsbri/TL%20Paint%20detail/05_35005000_2_zpstumgwrnm.jpg

After compounding and polishing, it looked better, but still too much OP for me:

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac225/lansgsbri/TL%20Paint%20detail/06_compoundpolish_zps16dqep9v.jpg

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac225/lansgsbri/TL%20Paint%20detail/07_compoundpolish2_zpsyoccdvnj.jpg

I had started the 3500 using the interflex pad, and even changed to using just the 3500 disc and it still wouldn't remove all the OP.

I decided to do a 'test spot' and I taped off a smaller section of that rear door and figured I'd go crazy:

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac225/lansgsbri/TL%20Paint%20detail/10_testspotbefore2_zpsl9bpzaey.jpg

I had some 3M Purple Finishing Film Hookit P2000 discs. I feel like a complete fool now, because looking online, I see those are only to be used dry, and I was spritzing them with water, just like the trizact discs.

I was caught up in what I was doing and didn't take pictures at each step, but these 2000 discs really leveled the OP. I then proceeded with the 3500, the 5000, compound, and then polishing, and I ended up with this:

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac225/lansgsbri/TL%20Paint%20detail/12_testspotafter_zpshk5g96gk.jpg

Much better!

I'm terrible using a camera, so please forgive my attempts:

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac225/lansgsbri/TL%20Paint%20detail/17_testspotafter_zps3ps0olhl.jpg

Here's a comparison between the front door and rear:

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac225/lansgsbri/TL%20Paint%20detail/18_frontandrear_zpsuquo4dl5.jpg

Front door before:

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac225/lansgsbri/TL%20Paint%20detail/19_driverdoorbefore_zpsgwwcuior.jpg

Front door after - I was losing daylight by now:

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac225/lansgsbri/TL%20Paint%20detail/20_driverdoorafter_zps4ssonhje.jpg

Now, for my question. Is the 3M P2000 discs ok to continue to use, or is there something different I should use instead? I used my PC and it seemed to do a fine job. If I continue to use these, should I switch to using it just dry, or keep doing it slightly damp?

I see the trizact wet sanding discs only come in 1500 and not 2000. Would I be ok to use that and then jump right to the 3000?

Thanks again for all the help!