Definitive levels of correction

[KS_Detailing]

I have had this discussion with many other detailers and have yet to come to a definitive answer to what defines the % of levels of correction. I have found one article on detailed imaged related to this topic but my efforts of research has come up short. When I correct paint its hard to leave defects in the paint. I typially with let my OCD take over and perform 2 steps. When I do a correction im striving to get the car defect free. I dont know how to hand a car back and there will still be swirls in the paint. Sometimes there are isolated or a region of deeper swirls/ scratches that are not worth chasing. So wanted to start an open discussion.

What % of correction should you expect from an AIO?
What % of correction should you expect from a one step and what is your one step process? cut with a polish, cut with a compound? Sometimes i will cut with a compound and get haze/ micromarring that needs to be polished out.
Whats the % on a two step?

What defines % of correction, ex: 90-95% defect free but the deepest RIDs?

Thanks for your input. example pictures would be much appreciated.

[RevitalizeAutoSpa]

Unfortunately I don't think there's an easy answer - there are too many variables.

What color is the paint?
How hard is the clear?
How deep are and prevelant are the swirls?
How deep are the RIDS?

An aggressive compound\pad combination on dark, soft paint may get 100% of the swirls out, but how much marring will there be?

For me, it depends on the request. If they only want to pay for a one-stage, that's what they're getting. I will try to achieve the best results I can, doing test spots with different combinations. It typically goes something like this:

Menzerna PF2500 and Lake Country White Polishing Pad
Menzerna PF2500 and Lake Country Orange Cutting Pad
Menzerna FG400 and Lake Country Orange Cutting Pad
Menzerna FG400 and Lake Country Yellow Heavy Cutting Pad

Whichever one gives me a good balance of correction without leaving significant marring is the one I go with.

I've gotten away from putting percentages on my website or talking about them with clients. It's just too difficult to substantiate. Instead I try to educate as to how polishing works, and what best fits the client's desires and budget.

[KS_Detailing]

is micromarring a necessary evil? i will cut on a some paint and get marring but should i be finding a combo that finishes down without marring yet achieving the desired correction or go aggressive for the correction and deal with the marring as the result?

[Audios S6]

There is way too much variability in machines, paint, pad and polish to say you will get 30% correction from an AIO. I've gotten 70%+ on soft paint and 20% on hard paint.

There also variability in the person. When I do a polish, I strive to select the combo that will get me the most cut while leaving the finish haze free. Someone else may only polish for the sake of removing haze and a few swirls.

There's also the topic of what constitutes 50% correction. If you have 1 billion swirls and I remove 50% of them, you are left with 500 million swirls, do you think the paint will look much better? If I remove 99% you are left with 10 million, is your paint near perfect? I think of it more like a logarithmic scale. It would be fair to say in most cases the swirls and defects follow this scale: there are many minor defects and few very deep defects. As such, removing 95% of 1 billion swirls may only leave you with a few RIDS.

[LSNAutoDetailing]

An inspection of the vehicle is paramount before making any % claim.
Generally 80% - 100% of typical swirls (love marks caused by towels, microfiber, typical snow removal brushes, etc) will come out. A key mark, or various other random scratches will take some inspection. There is no claim or guarantee to get those out.

It's really a case by case basis... how soft is the paint, how hard is the paint?; how deep are the scratches? how does the owner care for the car?; how much paint is left (after taking paint measurements)?; are there deep tree sap or bird etchings, are there type I, II, III water spots? was there any prior body damage?

Because of all of the above, I think the only claim to percentages are the typical swirls and scratches (love marks) caused by clothes and towels. Anything beyond that is a "careful" best guess.

My take is, if I can't get a scratch out after 6-8 section passes of a 2" x 2" area, it really has to be a conversation with the client. Anything more aggressive is running a risk of causing damage, something no one wants. Hence, always do test spots with the least aggressive method first.

A full paint correction could be just an AIO or Polish, if the test spot results are good. IMHO, Too many variables to lock it down to a specific product/pad combo.

[Ebg18t]

My take is, if I can't get a scratch out after 6-8 section passes of a 2" x 2" area, it really has to be a conversation with the client. .

You do a tiny test area..

[LSNAutoDetailing]

You do a tiny test area..


LOL!!! I wasn't caffeinated enough!
I shouldn't touch a keyboard until my second or third French-Press decanter.

:-)

[AutowerxDetailing]

Next year we will be adjusting how we advertise our paint correction packages. One of the things I will be changing is the descriptions of each service. Mainly I will be steering away from the "detailer jargon" such as 1-step, 2-step correction, etc. and instead advertise more consumer based words like light, medium, intensive defect removal, etc. When you think about it the customer likely doesn't care how you get to the end result. They are paying for a certain look. Whether they want "shiny paint" or 99% defect-free-perfect-paint it shouldn't matter how many polishing steps you do to get there.

[dcjredline]

I usually go in to deep description/definition with the customers about what will and wont come out. In my own head I would say I expect a good AIO to take about 50% of the swirls/light scratches out and I tell the customers it will look 1000% better.

Its much more complicated than 50%, 70% etc. I read an article one time (and I am sorry I don't remember where) people in general cant perceive a difference (with anything not paint correction) between 60% and 65% anyway.

I tell people that 90-95% is perfect on a DD. There is no sense of going further than that if they are going to drive it 20k per year.

[kosmetikwerks]

Next year we will be adjusting how we advertise our paint correction packages. One of the things I will be changing is the descriptions of each service. Mainly I will be steering away from the "detailer jargon" such as 1-step, 2-step correction, etc. and instead advertise more consumer based words like light, medium, intensive defect removal, etc. When you think about it the customer likely doesn't care how you get to the end result. They are paying for a certain look. Whether they want "shiny paint" or 99% defect-free-perfect-paint it shouldn't matter how many polishing steps you do to get there.


Makes sense. Many of my customers just want a 'refresh' to bring the 'shine' back. When I get into correction and steps some just seem confused no mater how I explain it

[cardaddy]

LOL!!! I wasn't caffeinated enough!
I shouldn't touch a keyboard until my second or third French-Press decanter.

:-)

Yep... that's that darned PE-8 and 1" pad going at again. :laughing:

Sure saves time on that 'test spot' though. ;) :buffing:


Speaking of small buffers.
What about that new Rupes coming out that looks like a fat ratchet that'll do rotary, 8mm and 12mm orbital at the flick of a switch? :D Me sees CarMomma needing to buy me something for my birthday. (Being as it's not supposed to be out till the Spring.) ;)

[Mike Phillips]

I have had this discussion with many other detailers and have yet to come to a definitive answer to what defines the % of levels of correction.


When I correct paint its hard to leave defects in the paint.


I typically with let my OCD take over and perform 2 steps.

When I do a correction im striving to get the car defect free.

I dont know how to hand a car back and there will still be swirls in the paint.

Sometimes there are isolated or a region of deeper swirls/ scratches that are not worth chasing. So wanted to start an open discussion.




Great questions!

If your personality type is OCD that is Obsessive Compulsive Disorder - then you need to learn and practice balance even if you're detailing cars for FREE. If you're detailing cars for money then it's even more important to learn and practice balance.

Please take a moment to read though my article here as it's written for you and for everyone new to detailing cars and especially anyone new to detailing cars for money.



A few tips on starting a part-time detailing business (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-make-money-detailing-cars/27827-few-tips-starting-part-time-detailing-business.html)
Match your services to your customer



NOTE: Don't scan it... take the time to read and digest the info.


:)

[shaded]

Next year we will be adjusting how we advertise our paint correction packages. One of the things I will be changing is the descriptions of each service. Mainly I will be steering away from the "detailer jargon" such as 1-step, 2-step correction, etc. and instead advertise more consumer based words like light, medium, intensive defect removal, etc. When you think about it the customer likely doesn't care how you get to the end result. They are paying for a certain look. Whether they want "shiny paint" or 99% defect-free-perfect-paint it shouldn't matter how many polishing steps you do to get there.

I have been on this site for a relatively short amount of time compared to most. I have never posted before and I read here a lot. This particular post for some reason stuck out huge to me and is a great idea. At first I had no clue what anyone was talking about around here with acronyms flying all around, sometimes being linked in succession 3 or four at a time looking like alphabet soup. I never imagined things could be so complicated then I started reading about the correction process, which blew my mind even further. Coming from a consumer standpoint like myself, when things get too confusing you get turned off. I would have had my car corrected by now if I was able to wade through the truckloads of marketing nonsense. It is almost impossible to take any scope of work seriously when you see the same advertised services quoted sometimes $800 apart.

[tenblade2001]

I'm a plastic surgeon and there are a lot of similarities: We're both dealing with meeting an expectation. Therefore, the most important thing to do is manage the expectation. Under promise and over deliver and the customer will be happy. Do you y'all use before and after pics? For example, take a pic of black car with hard paint, moderate defects and then do test spots with "light, medium, intensive" correction and then do the same for white car, etc. That way you pull out a book and say "here's a car that is a CLOSE APPROXIMATION of yours and here's an IDEA of that each level will look like". Just a thought.

[Audios S6]

I'm a plastic surgeon and there are a lot of similarities: We're both dealing with meeting an expectation. Therefore, the most important thing to do is manage the expectation. Under promise and over deliver and the customer will be happy. Do you y'all use before and after pics? For example, take a pic of black car with hard paint, moderate defects and then do test spots with "light, medium, intensive" correction and then do the same for white car, etc. That way you pull out a book and say "here's a car that is a CLOSE APPROXIMATION of yours and here's an IDEA of that each level will look like". Just a thought.

I've got all kinds of paint correction examples on my tablet. Since I work primarily on the same types of cars (Audi & BMW) I can normally find example vehicles that is very similar to give someone an idea of what to expect from AIO, polish & compound.