Those annoying swirl marks on my VINYL stripes

[wxonwxoff]

My 2008 427 Wil Cooksey Limited Production Z06 Corvette (Google it) came with unique factory applied black Vinyl ( I presume) striping, and also presume a clear coat. When I bought the car from original owner the swirl marking was already in place. I wax this car religiously, including the striping, and in general it looks beautiful. But since the stripe is black the swirls show like crazy.

I've read on this forum NOT to use a machine on Vinyl, I read on another forum where Adams Polish has done such features using a machine and the least aggressive pads and least aggressive polish and it is effective.

So since I have no machine yet, and I want to deal with this stripe situation at some point, I need to get authoritative instructions...no guessing...but experienced commentary please. Thanks

Bob

[GSKR]

You can gently rub out those by hand with a medium light polish,then seal it with a good sealer,or collinite detergent proof wax.Take your time in doing so and see where that gets you.

[FUNX650]

I can't exactly recall at the moment...but
do the graphics have a glossy or matte finish?

If matte:
Best not to polish.
Instead: Use Nanolex's Dr. Beasley's, or
Swissvax's matte-specific products.

If gloss:
Note: Before you begin any polishing...
Tape off the edges

I'll suggest to use either:
3M Perfect-It Machine Polish (#06064),
Meguiar's M205, or Meguiar's Ultimate Polish...
on either a finishing or polishing pad...
least aggressive products/methods/tools first.


Now...If you are going to use an Orbital buffer:
Start by running it at the lowest speed, and then
gradually progress up as needed. This must be
done very carefully so that you don't burn through
the graphic. I usually hit each area a few times for
about 15-30 seconds each time.


Afterwards:
I seal-off/protect "glossy-graphics" with Sealants,
instead of with Waxes.



Bob

[wxonwxoff]

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn317/makintrains/rsz_gm_applique_photo_zpszw15pzfn.jpg

Here's a photo of the vinyl stripe in question. Yes it is as glossy as the paint. Hoping Mike will lend some expertise on this. As I should have noted above, there is a factory clear coat over the vinyl.

Thanks Guys

Bob

[FUNX650]

As I should have noted above,
there is a factory clear coat over the vinyl.

From Bowling Green's paint kitchen?
Now that would be a first!!



Hoping Mike will lend some expertise on this.

:xyxthumbs:


Bob

[RFrommann]

I posted a thread about experimenting with polishing a vinyl wrapped vehicle! Please see the results, they are amazing!

[RFrommann]

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/96656-experiment-polishing-vinyl-wrapped-car.html

[wxonwxoff]

Interesting Post, and now I'm left wondering whether the vinyl of a wrap job is the same grade product as used in Factory vinyl striping accenting as on my Corvette. Not all vinyl is created equal I suspect. I'm inclined to believe the vinyl being marketed to the auto wrap providers is pretty tough stuff verses a purely decorative stripe package. My stripe has a noticeable orange peel in addition to the swirl marking. Since there definitely appears to be clear coat over it (unless I'm totally miss reading the surface) then It should be correctable, however I'm nervous about how any heat generated during the buffing process might affect the vinyl...still hoping for a Mike opinion...:xyxthumbs:

Thanks

Bob

[GSKR]

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn317/makintrains/rsz_gm_applique_photo_zpszw15pzfn.jpg

Here's a photo of the vinyl stripe in question. Yes it is as glossy as the paint. Hoping Mike will lend some expertise on this. As I should have noted above, there is a factory clear coat over the vinyl.

Thanks Guys

Bob
Oh ok no different ,it's the same system on the rest of car just polish them as if they were not there.mustang stripes are uncleared on some models as well as camaros .Thats a different procedure technique .just don't polish it to death paint thickness may differ from rest of car.

[GSKR]

Interesting Post, and now I'm left wondering whether the vinyl of a wrap job is the same grade product as used in Factory vinyl striping accenting as on my Corvette. Not all vinyl is created equal I suspect. I'm inclined to believe the vinyl being marketed to the auto wrap providers is pretty tough stuff verses a purely decorative stripe package. My stripe has a noticeable orange peel in addition to the swirl marking. Since there definitely appears to be clear coat over it (unless I'm totally miss reading the surface) then It should be correctable, however I'm nervous about how any heat generated during the buffing process might affect the vinyl...still hoping for a Mike opinion...:xyxthumbs:

Thanks

Bobclearcoat is the magic word,I would not emphasize on removing orange peel on the stripes,paint thickness may differ just polish the swirls out and leave it alone as far as sanding or heavey heat correction.

[Mike Phillips]

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn317/makintrains/rsz_gm_applique_photo_zpszw15pzfn.jpg

Here's a photo of the vinyl stripe in question. Yes it is as glossy as the paint.

Hoping Mike will lend some expertise on this.

As I should have noted above, there is a factory clear coat over the vinyl.

Thanks Guys

Bob


Hi Bob,

IF there is clearcoat paint over the black stripes then I highly doubt the black stripes are vinyl somehow applied to the read paint and then cleared over. I'm pretty sure there would be a HUGE paint adhesion issue.

The entire hood is clearcoated then the black stripes UNDER the clear were painted on.


IF that is the case, then treat the clearcoat over the black stripes the same way you would treat the clearcoat over the red paint. That is machine polish with high quality products, foam pads and dual action polishers.

Assuming what I stated above is true, that is the black stripes are painted on and under the clearcoat, then the reason you see the swirls over the black paint is because black shows everything. There will be just as many swirls over the red paint it's just because red and other medium colors don't show swirls and scratches as easily as black you have to LOOK harder to see them.

Use bright, overhead sunlight.

You should be able to feel the paint with your fingertips and detect if there is a vinyl sticker ON the paint or a subtle ridge at the edge as that's clearcoat laying over an extra layer of black paint.


For your sake, I hope the black stripes are in fact paint and are in fact UNDER the clear. polishing and waxing this Corvette will be easier and faster the rest of your life if this is the case.

If the stripes are a vinyl graphic the working on and maintaining the paint around the graphics will be a pain the rest of your life.


I have an article on this topic here,

Have graphics painted under the clearcoat (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/72985-have-graphics-painted-under-clearcoat.html) - The best of all worlds



So please, do a follow-up to this thread and let us know what you find out and confirm.

:)

[Mike Phillips]

If the black stripes are in fact glossy vinyl graphics applied on top of the clearcoat paint then here's Bruno Massel's COPO Camaro that has glossy vinyl graphics and I buffed these out using ultra soft foam pads on orbital polishers with ultra fine cut polishes and then machine waxed them.

COPO Camaro - Flex vs Rupes - Carbon Fiber Hood Extreme Makeover (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/89869-copo-camaro-flex-vs-rupes-carbon-fiber-hood-extreme-makeover.html)

To clean and brighten the Ivan graphics a softly machine polished and then machine waxed the graphics using the RUPES Bigfoot 21 with the super ultra soft white foam polishing pad and the NEW & Improved Diamond Ultra Fine Polish.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=92752

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=92753




Here's before

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=92070


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=92071




Here's after....

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=92072

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=92073

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=92074



:)

[wxonwxoff]

If the black stripes are in fact glossy vinyl graphics applied on top of the clearcoat paint then here's Bruno Massel's COPO Camaro that has glossy vinyl graphics and I buffed these out using ultra soft foam pads on orbital polishers with ultra fine cut polishes and then machine waxed them.

COPO Camaro - Flex vs Rupes - Carbon Fiber Hood Extreme Makeover (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/89869-copo-camaro-flex-vs-rupes-carbon-fiber-hood-extreme-makeover.html)

To clean and brighten the Ivan graphics a softly machine polished and then machine waxed the graphics using the RUPES Bigfoot 21 with the super ultra soft white foam polishing pad and the NEW & Improved Diamond Ultra Fine Polish.



Okay Mike, update on my Graphic...there is no clear coat over it. Simply a glossy black graphic applied over the clear coated red paint at the factory.

So since I have not purchased a buffer what is the most likely machine and specific product line for the amateur...ME...to be buying and using to correct the swirls, and obviously for future use on the painted surfaces going forward?

I presume there is no suitable hand method for such a correction on the vinyl...am I right?

Thank you so much.

Bob

[Mike Phillips]

Okay Mike, update on my Graphic...there is no clear coat over it. Simply a glossy black graphic applied over the clear coated red paint at the factory.



That was my guess but wanted to wait till you could confirm.

Too bad... the best way to do graphics is to have them sprayed under the clearcoat.





So since I have not purchased a buffer what is the most likely machine and specific product line for the amateur...ME...to be buying and using to correct the swirls, and obviously for future use on the painted surfaces going forward?



I have bad news for you...

I don't believe you can remove physical swirls and scratches out of vinyl graphics.

Let me be very specific.

I don't believe it's possible to ABRADE a glossy vinyl graphic to remove enough material to lower the upper surface with the lowest depths of the swirls and scratches IN the vinyl graphics.

It's a dimensional thing.

I believe you can IMPROVE the appearance of swirls and scratches in vinyl graphics but not 100 percent remove the swirls and scratches.

I have a really old article on MOL that explains this here, written in 2005, that's 10+ years ago and it's just as accurate today as the day I posted it.

What it means to remove a scratch out of anything... (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7228)

Basically some materials just don't take to being abraded with the end results looking good or original.


This means you have three options,


Try to improve them.
Remove them.
Learn to live with them.
I'd suggest going with 1 and 2 unless you feel like purchasing new graphics and then removing the old ones and installing the new ones.






I presume there is no suitable hand method for such a correction on the vinyl...am I right?



You can apply some trim dressings and they will darken and mask the opaque looking swirls and scratches temporarily.

If it were me I would use the same approach I used on the Autogeek graphics on Bruno Massel's COPO Camaro, that is machine polish with a light touch using a RUPES BigFoot 21 with the RUPES ultra soft white foam finishing pad and the RUPES Ultra Fine Cut Polish. This is my favorite approach to graphics.


This is also the approach I used on the ORIGINAL Screaming Phoenix on the original paint on this all original 1978 Trans Am that is also featured in my new RUPES how-to book.

BEFORE

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=90051


AFTER

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=90062







Thank you so much.


Bob


Well I don't know if I help much on the cure but sometimes that's how it goes.

Couple of comments...

For the rest of your life you're going to want to learn how to wash, dry and basically TOUCH the paint and the graphics on this car carefully. That way you won't put more swirls and scratches into the paint or the graphics.

If you're wanting to restore the paint by removing the swirls and scratches then "yes" you're going to have to purchase some type of polisher as modern clearcoat paints are simply too hard to try to work on and maintain by hand.

For the graphics, you could try the least expensive approach to "improve" them and that would be to purchase either a Porter Cable 7424XP or a Griot's Garage 6" DA Polisher.

Then get a 5" backing plate.

Then get a 6" RUPES white foam polishing pad and the RUPES Diamond Ultra Fine Cut Polish and try to duplicate my results.

Being a solid black color I would keep your expectations low and hope for the best.

It probably wouldn't be too expensive to get all new graphics and then STILL get a polisher, pads and product, perfect the paint and then apply the new graphics and then always touch the car carefully.


Maybe get a copy of my book, The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine, it's a very detailed book on machine polishing with multiple tools.

If you really want to learn how to polish paint then attend my January class,


ACR Training with Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeek.net/detailing-boot-camp.html)
Formerly known as Detailing Boot Camp


Working on your Corvette will be breeze after you go through my class.


:)

[wxonwxoff]

Well Mike that bites, but there is some satisfaction in knowing the facts. I can't help but notice you specifically reference the use of the Rupes buffer in your relies. I didn't think that was a beginners buffer, both for ease of use and cost to purchase. So can I swing this vinyl massage with a PC or a GG buffer and use the Rupes ultra soft pads and fine cut polish?

I appreciate your taking the time to help me.

Thank you

Bob