Rotary Advice-Flex

[Zubair]

Hi Everyone

I am working more frequently on Mercedes Benz scratch resistant and ceramiclear hard coat paints and while the Rupes and Flex 3401 serve me real well its still a tough task removing swirls and other defects out this paint. I am purchasing a Flex PE14-2-150 real soon and have some concerns and questions that I need addressing.

1:I know not to buff on body lines or edges with a rotary especially and not to keep it in one spot too long so as to avoid burning paint. Burning paint is not my immediate concern, not finishing well or buffer swirls, trails or holograms are my issue. How do I not inflict holograms? What technique should I employ? Slower arm speed, less pressure,slower machine speed, less aggressive pad and compound?

2:Can a rotary finish off hologram free with say M80/M205/SF4000 on a black pad?

3:Can I put product on the pad, spread it out on the paint and polish like I do with my DA's or do I need to use Mike P's 10@10 pick up the bead technique?

4:Why do some people compound/polish with a Rotary using only the edge of the pad?

5:I prefer 5-6" pads, which backing plate and pads for a rotary would you guys recommend?

I know to get a test hood to play around with and thats been sorted. In general any rotary advice over and above the 5 questions I've posed would be most appreciated.

[Paul A.]

I can hear, loud and clear, where you are and what you are asking. I went from a Porter Cable 7336 to a Hitachi rotary some years ago. I will say though, with the random orbitals on the market now i would absolutely get one of those (pick one...Flex 3401, Rupes, BOSS etc.). With that said, i still think any of those machines you have can do exactly what you want on Mercedes ceramiclear paint. It may be elusive to you right now but i can just about guarantee it with the right cut product, pad and technique you can get it done to your satisfaction.

Ok, now, before you say i'm a heretic, yes, you can get faster results with the Flex rotary. THAT'S the reason i went with a rotary some years ago. To this day i remain a rotary user for 95% of my correction work and down to finish polishing hologram free.

1. Yes, almost all you said will lessen the chance of holgrams. I will say that i still get some after my initial cuts on a 2 stage job. But they are very easily removed with a finish pad, finishing polish and a lighter approach with sometimes slower speeds. My arm movement slows down for jewelling as well. I also sometimes use "negative" pressure as Mike P has talked about whereby you even lift a little of the machine weight off the paint.

2. Yes again. Haven't used Megs 80 but M205 and Menz finish polishes on a black, blue or red LC pad does wonderful work. I have also used Menz SF 4000 or 4500 on a white LC pad for harder paints for the same stunning finish.

3. To me it doesn't matter, i use both techniques. Both will get product on the pad and in contact with the paint. Most of the time i apply product to the pad and on the lowest speed setting cover the entire work area with as even a layer of polish as possible. Then i spin it up and work my passes.

4. I do NOT know! To me, that is inviting citizenship into hologram city! I ALWAYS keep my pads as flat as possible to let the entire pad surface work evenly.

5. Simply one that is smaller than the pad you're using. The largest i go is my 7" wool pads on my rotary and for that i have a 6" BP. I absolutely LOVE the 5.5" hybrid pads on my rotary i have a 5" BP.

Again, i think you have what you need for Mercedes C code paints and may want to save some money and try some different approaches/products/pads but i love my rotary and will replace it if it ever breaks. If my PC ever breaks beyond repair i will replace it with one of the newer ROB machines. If that ever happens i suspect my rotary will be relegated to the dusty shelf!

[Zubair]

Thanks Puckman for the comprehensive response. Whilst I am able to get the results I want with the Rupes 15, Flex 3401 heck even my DAS6(PC 24XP to you guys), it takes a while. I have all Meguiars,Menzerna,Rupes and Scholl Concepts compounds and polishes along with Lake Country Flat,HD Orbital, Hybrid, all Rupes pads, Optimum MF, Scholl Spider pads, Meguiars foam and mf cutting discs and more. Certain Merc paints take me really long to get deeper swirls out the bonnet and boot(hood and trunk). I charge per car not per hour so if I turn a car around in a day or two or more its all the same but being fully booked I can't afford to lose an extra day on the same car. I need to cut/correct/polish/wax real fast else I am out of pocket on another car.

[RPM_BR]

Err, I will chime in, regarding my experience with the PE14, so far:

I bought a bunch of m14 backing plates, 3", 4", 5", 5,5" and 6", because I hate the adapter. A couple of them are cheap chinese stuff, and only the 5 and 6 are good brand backing plates.

I use all kinds of pads, but I tend to start with softer, medium density pads. I also tend to prefer open cell foams instead of closed cells.

Arm movement is faster than DA, and pressure is lighter as well.

The feeling of the PE14 is more like holding a Rupes than the bulkiness of a 3401.

I start at 600RPM, two passes, then two passes at 800 to 1100RPM, and then two passes at 600RPM to finish it. Usually, but not always. But I always start at the lowest speed.

I like the DRC pads to use with the PE14, but I also use it with mf pads, hybrids, cg hex even Rupes pads. I avoid using with coarse Rupes pads like the blue and the UHS, tooo much cut.

I also use it with the hybrid wool pad, and menzerna wool pad as well. I never use it with double sided wool pad, I find it too swirly, I prefer smoother wool pads.

The edge of the pads is good for bumpers, columns, tight spaces, but as you grow accustomed with it, you start to gain confidence and to use the edge for a localized scratch removal, for instance.

I keep checking the temp with the back of my hand, and try to keep in mind that I'm working with a rotary, thus the arm movement has to be faster, instead of the low pace of the 3401.

I put the product on the pad, but sometimes, like bumpers, I draw tiny lines with the compounds and proceed as Mike taught us.

You can finish it with a rotary, I found it is easier to finish in medium to hard paints, softer paints is harder. Even when you don't finish it, couple passes of a DA and 4000 for instance and you are good to go.

The control you have with a rotary is a lot more precise, since the plate doesn't oscillate.

I usually cut and polish with the PE, and finish with the Rupes 21.

I hope it helps, I've been using the PE 14 for some 15 months now.

Best regards.

[Zubair]

Wow, @ RPM BR and Puckman, nail on the head stuff! Exactly the type of precise responses I was hoping for. Thanks!

Would SF4000 on a rotary and black pad at 600rpm jewel the paint better than any of my DA's with the same pad/compound? Or is that jewel step best left to DA's strictly?

[RPM_BR]

I think you could try it, test spot will tell you more precise. Master Mike has a good thread regarding jewelling with rotary

[Paul A.]

I spin SF4000 and 4500 up to about 1500 on my rotary. I use the Zenith Point technique where i start out slow after spreading out the polish. I then go up the ladder then down the ladder at about 1000-1200-1500-1200-1000 and then sometimes finish at about 800. What i love about Menzerna polishes is both the work time and the visual indicators when it's fully broken down. Jewelling for me is paint specific and about 20% of the time i do it with my ROB. 80% it's done with a white, black or blue flat LC pad and my rotary. And yes, as RPM said, a test spot always tells you what works best.

And, ok, now i gotcha...it's a speed thing to turn customers faster and i have certainly achieved that with my rotary. I get much faster results as i mentioned. A practice panel is a strong recommendation. I would even take a small area and burn through to see and feel that. I burned through twice in my experience early on but fortunately on MY CAR, never on a customer. Get the feel for it and you'll be wielding it like a pro. Sounds like you have an abundance of machine experience already and with a Flex 3401 to feel forced rotation too!

Best of luck mate.

[Zubair]

Thanks