Estimated time for a 1950 Plymouth suburban

[Busy mind]

I've read a few articles by Mike on single stage paint restoration but I'm curious about how long the process would take for a "production" style detail. If i do the job, I'll probably stop after a few applications of Meg's 7 and wax.
Owner is usually someone I would turn down since he's looking for a miracle for pennies, but I'd really like to work on this old 1950 Plymouth suburban.
I am terrible at estimating time and I always take longer.
So if the paint is extremely dried out and cracked in a few areas, about how long should I expect to rejuvenate just the paint?

I did a test section on a door panel which took around 15 min of prep and applying M7. It looked enhanced right away, but about 3 hours later I saw that the glaze/polish got soaked up like nothing.

If I do come across this again, and it's someone who values quality, are most of you charging by the hour or the project?
This owner told me that for another $1,000 his buddies could paint it for him and everything would be perfect. The more I think about my quote, the more I realize how low it was. I guess this would just be a detail to get the experience.

Thank you for your experienced comments.

[MA5177]

I know next to nothing about pro detailing, but like anything else I would charge him what you feel is fair to do a good job.

From there let him decide to take it or leave it, if he is already trying to pinch you I would walk.

[Busy mind]

What I feel is fair and what he thinks is fair, are two different things. I'm just curious the time it takes others to complete this job, so I know for future reference. I'm estimating 35 hours and I'd like to be around $40 an hour. I don't see him paying $1400 when he thinks it can be painted for under 2k.

[Mike Phillips]

First, for those that might not know, here's what one of these rigs looks like....

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=99192








This owner told me that for another $1,000 his buddies could paint it for him and everything would be perfect.




I doubt that's going to happen.

Once you dive into an old car if you start finding rust or worse, cancer you're talking about a money pit.

It's possible his buddies could slap a paint job on it for a $1000.00 but that's what he'll have a $1,000.00 paint job.

This 1956 Chevy Belair my class buffed out has a $15,000.00 paint job and after a proper machine polishing it looks like it.


Removing water spots with Rupes Bigfoot 21 Orbital Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-detailing-boot-camp-classes/91996-removing-water-spots-rupes-bigfoot-21-orbital-polisher.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=94794




I could buff the Suburban out in probably about 8 hours and have it looking nice using a Flex 3401 and either a one-step cleaner/wax or by doing a 2-step using either a compound or a polish followed by waxing.

The Flex would save your but on this job.

Do you have any pictures? Can you upload them to the gallery and insert them so we can all see the current condition and the car itself?


:)

[fly07sti]

What I feel is fair and what he thinks is fair, are two different things. I'm just curious the time it takes others to complete this job, so I know for future reference. I'm estimating 35 hours and I'd like to be around $40 an hour. I don't see him paying $1400 when he thinks it can be painted for under 2k.

From the pics I saw, it looks like he has already had one or two of those $1,000 paint jobs. Even if he let you do it for the price you quoted him, I feel you wouldn't be satisfied for the simple fact of how poor the paint job was to begin with. Something a little nicer will come your way soon.

[Busy mind]

I do have a few pics of the nasty "touch up" spots. I've followed the tutorial before about uploading pics and seem to be doing something wrong because I can't find them. I can text them to you Mike...haha

I pointed out the rust to him and showed him all the spots that need body work. Apparently he might be selling it for a quick buck. I was under the impression it was a family cruiser he was going to drive to summer shows and keep around.

It's hard to pass this opportunity up. I'd prefer something like this over an exotic, but this is life. I figure 8 Mike P. hours is probably the equivalent of 20 hours for me, so now I have a rough estimate.

Yes Don, maybe something cooler will come along.

[Mike Phillips]

Here's the link to your gallery, the only picture there is the one I uploaded.

Busy mind Gallery - AutogeekOnline Gallery (http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/showgallery.php/ppuser/74984/cat/500)


I know working with pictures can be confusing. Not sure what to say as all my articles include screen shots that show what to do.

:dunno:

[Busy mind]

Here's the link to your gallery, the only picture there is the one I uploaded.

Busy mind Gallery - AutogeekOnline Gallery (http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/showgallery.php/ppuser/74984/cat/500)


I know working with pictures can be confusing. Not sure what to say as all my articles include screen shots that show what to do.

:dunno:

Seems to be working now. I swear 2 months ago it told me it's processing the image and then it never showed. I did it from my phone, iPad, and laptop. Nevertheless I'll put up some examples later on. Thanks.

[Busy mind]

Ok let's see if these work...

[Busy mind]

1950 plymouth suburban - AutogeekOnline Gallery (http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=2946)

Here's the link to my album to make it easier.

[bbattle]

I hate it when people try to nickel and dime a project like this.

If he's only going to spend $1k on the paint job, what sort of job is expecting of you?

I understand wanting to work on a cool project, but quote an honest price and if he doesn't bite then maybe negotiate a bit less but don't do the job for nothing just because it's a cool car.

[Mike Phillips]

Here's your pictures. Now that you have them uploaded to your gallery, if you read my article and look at the pictures I show you how to insert them like I did below.

How to insert an image from your photo gallery into your message (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles-discussion-forums/21313-how-insert-image-your-photo-gallery-into-your-message.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=99253

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=99249

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=99250

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=99254

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=99256


:Picture:

[Mike Phillips]

To me, it looks like what's left of the paint will shine up quick and easy using a foam polishing pad on a Flex 3401.

If you don't have a Flex 3401 then use the money from this detail to buy one.

You can do this with any other polisher but most other simple DA polishers will take a lot longer and a rotary will probably burn through multiple times and leave holograms if you do a one-step.

You could also rub it out by hand using some terry cloth like cut up a cotton hand towel into chunks of cloth about 6" square and then fold them in have to rub with.


For you, if you want to do it bid him $400.00 to $500.00 for the one-step and if he says that's too high let him repaint it.

Read my section in Renny's book about

The learned art of turning work down


Do what I teach in my detailing classes (http://www.autogeek.net/detailing-boot-camp.html), it's called Cherry Picking. That is go after great clients that pay well, let newbies have the lowing paying, unrewarding hard jobs.


NOTE: Be prepared to clean you pad often as you're going to have a LOT of dead, oxidized paint coming off the car.

In my opinion, he would be money ahead to let you buff it out and then he can just drive the car an enjoy it or flip it.

If he tries to get a cheap paint job first it's going to turn into a money pit unless the painters just slap on a really cheap paint job and if they do, then sell it fast before it starts to go south.

Old single stage paint like is on this car really buffs up a a high shine, I think everyone would be impressed.



:)

[Busy mind]

To me, it looks like what's left of the paint will shine up quick and easy using a foam polishing pad on a Flex 3401.

If you don't have a Flex 3401 then use the money from this detail to buy one.

You can do this with any other polisher but most other simple DA polishers will take a lot longer and a rotary will probably burn through multiple times and leave holograms if you do a one-step.

You could also rub it out by hand using some terry cloth like cut up a cotton hand towel into chunks of cloth about 6" square and then fold them in have to rub with.


For you, if you want to do it bid him $400.00 to $500.00 for the one-step and if he says that's too high let him repaint it.

Read my section in Renny's book about

The learned art of turning work down


Do what I teach in my detailing classes (http://www.autogeek.net/detailing-boot-camp.html), it's called Cherry Picking. That is go after great clients that pay well, let newbies have the lowing paying, unrewarding hard jobs.


NOTE: Be prepared to clean you pad often as you're going to have a LOT of dead, oxidized paint coming off the car.

In my opinion, he would be money ahead to let you buff it out and then he can just drive the car an enjoy it or flip it.

If he tries to get a cheap paint job first it's going to turn into a money pit unless the painters just slap on a really cheap paint job and if they do, then sell it fast before it starts to go south.

Old single stage paint like is on this car really buffs up a a high shine, I think everyone would be impressed.



:)

Thanks for the feedback. My Flex is already ordered and should be here next week.

From the articles I did read, everyone was using Meg's #7 first to prep it before polishing. I assumed with the cracked and uneven paint on this classic that I would have to do the same before polishing.

I would like to be in a position to cherry pick. I've already detailed/corrected a Harley for this customer and he has a couple other cars he wants maintained. I was compensated fairly for the work done so far. When I gave him the quote I took into account of having a high price for materials since the M#7 is $15 a bottle and I figured 8-10 bottles would suffice for this dry paint.

I know for certain I couldn't do a quick one step and be satisfied. I always end up doing more work than what I quote. It's something I'm working on.
To me the experience is valuable but we'll see what happens.

[Mike Phillips]

Thanks for the feedback. My Flex is already ordered and should be here next week.



You'll love this tool. I did this in 5.5 hours.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=99326

3D HD Adapt and Poxy Review - 1940 Studebaker Streetrod detailed by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/94683-3d-hd-adapt-poxy-review-1940-studebaker-streetrod-detailed-mike-phillips.html)





From the articles I did read, everyone was using Meg's #7 first to prep it before polishing. I assumed with the cracked and uneven paint on this classic that I would have to do the same before polishing.



Yes, this is how you restore antique paint that is important to you. If you're doing it on the cheap you could probably just use a cleaner/wax.

If it were MY CAR I would do the #7 first. It should be important to the owner. Key word is important. Re-read the 3rd paragraph of my #7 restoration article and you'll see I use the word important in the first paragraph to define who this process is for.

The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/25304-secret-removing-oxidation-restoring-show-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html)

I even made the letters red. :)






I would like to be in a position to cherry pick.



You will get there. :xyxthumbs:





I've already detailed/corrected a Harley for this customer and he has a couple other cars he wants maintained. I was compensated fairly for the work done so far. When I gave him the quote I took into account of having a high price for materials since the M#7 is $15 a bottle and I figured 8-10 bottles would suffice for this dry paint.



You could do it with 2-3 easy.






I know for certain I couldn't do a quick one step and be satisfied. I always end up doing more work than what I quote. It's something I'm working on.
To me the experience is valuable but we'll see what happens.



You're just like me.... see this article I wrote a long time ago.... read it and see if you can relate....

The Mindset of a Professional Detailer (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/20551-mindset-professional-detailer.html)



:)