Clay bar problem- contamination or orange peel?

[jbmeyer13]

I've been using a brand new Adam's gray clay bar that I picked up one month ago on my 03' M5 and it apparently won't fully remove the paint contaminants.


First, I washed the car and used the clay bar while washing. I then polished with my PC using a combo of Meguiars 105 (orange pad) and 205 (both white and black pads) and then went to use the plastic bag test. I can still feel and hear the roughness. Consequently, I grabbed some Meguiar's Quick Detailer and made several additional attempts with the clay bar but no luck. Furthermore, there's nothing visible being picked up on the clay.


I figured that perhaps something was wrong with the clay so then I tested it on my daily driver (03' 325xi). The surface was still a little rough but much better than the untreated area and I could see that the bar was picking up surface contaminants.

So my two questions are:

1) How does orange peel feel compared to contamination? The surface feels like there's small amounts of grit and that leads me to believe it's contamination.

2) Should I try something more aggressive like the nanoskin autoscrub medium pad?

Thanks

[Setec Astronomy]

You're not going to feel orange peel with a baggie test. Is it possible you have overspray on the car that's not coming off with the clay? Although the M105/orange should have knocked that down some.

Has the car ever had any body work? Have you used a ferrous contamination remover? How much experience do you have with claying and polishing?

[jbmeyer13]

You're not going to feel orange peel with a baggie test. Is it possible you have overspray on the car that's not coming off with the clay? Although the M105/orange should have knocked that down some.

Has the car ever had any body work? Have you used a ferrous contamination remover? How much experience do you have with claying and polishing?

The car has had work performed. In 2008 the gas tank hatch/compartment was repainted (due to rust endemic to E39's), the front bumper repainted in 2009 (to cure minor road rash prior to full clear bra installation) and then in the Summer of 2010 the rear bumper was repainted after a small scratch from being rear ended. After every instance I had the car professionally detailed to remove overspray.

I'm an amateur; been using clay bars for over 10-years and have been polishing for the past 3-years (although this particular car was off the road and garaged for the past 18-months). I've never had to use a ferrous contamination remover as this car was professionally maintained from 2006 and onward.

I've never encountered something like this before and was skeptical that it would be orange peel because the car has been corrected previously. I've also dealt with minor overspray as well and I'd be surprised if that were the case. With that said, I'm not a professional so my frame of reference is limited.

[Matt@Revive]

where are you feeling the rough patches?

it is possible to have particle in the paint from the respray. can you see any imperfections were the roughness is?

[jbmeyer13]

where are you feeling the rough patches?

it is possible to have particle in the paint from the respray. can you see any imperfections were the roughness is?

I can't see any imperfections with the naked eye. Thus far I have worked on the roof, c-pillars and the trunk lid. If I were to use something like a microscope I wouldn't know what to look for.

[Setec Astronomy]

jbmeyer, where are you located?

[jbmeyer13]

jbmeyer, where are you located?

Northern NJ; near Morristown

[jbmeyer13]

If this is in fact overspray not being removed by the clay bar, what is the next step? Is it possible that the combo of PC 7424XP and M105 is not strong enough to remove this?

[Setec Astronomy]

Northern NJ; near Morristown

Oh, I didn't think you were going to be close to me, I thought maybe you would be close to a pro member who could give you an opinion. There's always Phil up in Norwood. Greg Gellas in Hillsbourough.

Oh, and if you have clearcoat overspray that isn't coming off from claying and polishing, then I guess wetsand would be the next step. Which is why you need someone like Phil.

[lawrenceSA]

If this is in fact overspray not being removed by the clay bar, what is the next step? Is it possible that the combo of PC 7424XP and M105 is not strong enough to remove this?

Perhaps you need to step up the aggressiveness of the clay as a starting point, but do expect more 'marring'.... though nothing that 205 shouldn't be able to remove.

[Setec Astronomy]

Perhaps you need to step up the aggressiveness of the clay as a starting point, but do expect more 'marring'.... though nothing that 205 shouldn't be able to remove.

Yeah, certainly more aggressive clay, more aggressive pad, more aggressive compound...I'm just thinking it's going to be a 5000 grit Trizact that's going to wind up.

[jbmeyer13]

Yeah, certainly more aggressive clay, more aggressive pad, more aggressive compound...I'm just thinking it's going to be a 5000 grit Trizact that's going to wind up.


I looked back through my rather extensive records and realized the last trip to the body shop (for something small) was not followed up by a clay bar process. So that leads me to believe in all likelihood this is a caked on overspray. Not only will I have to get this off the paint but also a custom clear bra covering the entire hood, front bumper and fenders.

Not that I'm about to purchase a 5000 grit disc but are these even recommended for use with a 7424XP or does it ideally require a Rupes or Flex? It sounds like we are drifting into an area that requires someone with professional experience.

I've wet sanded locations by hand but never attempted to correct what likely amounts to being nearly the entire car, let alone with something like Trizact pads.

This is getting worse by the minute:cry:

[Setec Astronomy]

Sure you can use the Trizact with a PC, sanding requires less power than polishing.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/50222-video-wow-3m-5000-grit-polishing-i-mean-sanding-discs.html

I think you should try a test spot with some more aggressive clay, and see if that gets the overspray off, and if it does, what kind of marring it leaves. I'm not too far away if that helps...although I'm not exactly offering, either, got a lot of stuff going on right now.

[jbmeyer13]

Sure you can use the Trizact with a PC, sanding requires less power than polishing.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/50222-video-wow-3m-5000-grit-polishing-i-mean-sanding-discs.html

I think you should try a test spot with some more aggressive clay, and see if that gets the overspray off, and if it does, what kind of marring it leaves. I'm not too far away if that helps...although I'm not exactly offering, either, got a lot of stuff going on right now.

I saddled up, took the plunge and picked up 3 #5000 Trizact pads from a local auto body supply shop on Friday (prior to SA's post about using a heavier clay bar). I tried varying speeds from 4-6 and found that the key is using just the right amount of water around speed 4.5 with minimal pressure. As advertised- too much and it won't cut and too little the pad will clog up and the DA won't break the finish.

I started on the trunk and it was definitely covered with overspray. No surprise since the rear bumper was the last area touched. Truly amazing to see what was coming off. I found that going straight to M205 didn't leave the finish I was looking for so I hit it with M105/orange pad and then with M205 on white and finally on black pads. This may not be the most efficient way to rectify this type of problem but I think the results are pretty good as I was also able to remove defects in the finish that would not come out with the PC/105/orange combo. A skilled professional detailer with a rotary probably could have achieved comparable or better results faster but I think this was a good alternative that is far less risky for an enthusiast.

The really interesting part is I tried running two different kinds of plastic bags and also nitrile gloves over the finish and they each felt different. The glove feels perfectly smooth, the sandwich baggy displays some texture and the ziplock freezer bag was a little coarse. I then took each of these and ran them across various pieces of glass (car window, house window, mirror, etc.) and the results were fairly consistent.

Just to have a piece of mind, a detailer who I've used in the past is stopping by tomorrow night to evaluate my efforts. If all is good, them I'll finish up the rest of the car.

[Setec Astronomy]

Wow that sounds like it came out well. Who is the local detailer if you don't mind me asking?