Ultimate Wax (Liquid and Paste) don't like machine application ... for me

[Don M]

I've used both waxes now, the liquid and the paste and I can honestly say that neither of them play well for me with my PC. I tried the paste first, and I had to use a ton of product to even get any of the wax onto the paint that I went through a can much faster than I should have. So when I ran out of the paste, I bought the liquid. I took a new (relatively speaking) Lake Country black finishing pad and tried the standard "X" to prime the pad and subsequent 4 drops to reapply wax to the pad. It was worse than the paste. The wax absorbed into the pad and stayed there, it wouldn't come out and spread onto the paint. I decided not to waste any more liquid wax and used the supplied applicator and applied it by hand from that moment on, which BTW worked excellently, it spread thin and seemed to go forever.
Some other facts: The black pad I have for the PC is MUCH softer and more absorbent than the supplied hand pad and where the supplied hand pad feels like a yellow polishing pad, the black pad for the PC feels more like a soft bath sponge. Could this be the issue?
I'm not really complaining, I like getting up close and personal when applying a LSP to a car, but I just completed my father in law's 1500 Silverado (with a bed cap) and applying wax, even one as cooperative as Ultimate Liquid, was a bit of a chore. Even so, I still prefer to remove LSPs by hand.

Any thoughts?

[hogie]

I used a blue lake county pad to apply my ulw. While the pad is more absorbent than a hand application it still works well for me.

[aim4squirrels]

Interesting timing for this thread.

The coating I have on my personal vehicle has begun to wear off the rear quarter panels, and I'm sure the rest will follow soon.

I won't have time for a correction for a few more weeks, so I went through some old supplies to see what could get me a little ways down the road.

I found an older bottle of liquid ultimate wax (more than 5 years old but still looked good). I used a blue lake country pad and my PC and initially, I believed I was experiencing exactly what you perceived to be happening. On my black vehicle, it appeared that I was getting inconsistent coverage and I felt I was using far more product than I should. It seemed as though the liquid wax was barely spreading. I was gauging where the wax was spreading by the spots that were darkening the paint. That was, until I got to the trunk lid, which was the first horizontal panel I did that I could look down on. I noticed that even where the paint didn't appear darker, I got nice scalloped pattern from the pad and some product was definitely being left behind. So, I started working faster and covering much more surface area than before, not paying attention to the darker spots, but looking for that scalloped pattern.

Bottom line is, when I went to remove the product with a microfiber towel, those earlier panels that I tried to wax until they darkened up were the hardest to buff the product off. I had used way too much product.

I was really curious about this darkening effect and started researching here on AG and elsewhere. It appears the ULW has fillers and polishing oils (not abrasives, just the carrier oils used in polishes) that darken the surface somewhat.

They also have the odd side effect of leaving an almost impossible to remove oily sheen on the surface that is most visible when looking at the reflected coronas on your paint from a light source at a steep angle. It looks like you've sprayed Pam non-stick cooking oil on your paint and smeared it around. You can actually make the oils change direction by changing the way you swipe your towel on the surface.

One poster I read here experienced a similar phenomenon and wrote about it here at AG. He mentioned he had contacted Meguiars directly about the oily residue and was told that perhaps this wax wasn't meant for a highly refined finish like most of us here keep. I'm guessing this product was intended to meet the needs of lesser educated and passionate consumers of car care products?

Still, after I was done with the heavy rub out to remove the excess product I inadvertently put on, I was very, very pleased with the end result.

It's been a long time since I had used anything but the coating and coating specific products as an LSP, and the difference was dramatic to me. The ULW did a GREAT job of filling the light wash induced marring that I had in a few places. It's impossible to tell to my eye where some of those light scratches are, and I know exactly where to look. I like the way it darkened up the black, and gave it a wetter shine than the coating had.

It's got me seriously rethinking about using another coating. I bought some OPT gloss coat a while back on sale, so I might put that on and if I'm ever dissatisfied with the look, I can put more ULW on top. I definitely want to wash it soon and see if it's the oils giving it the look I'm liking currently, and if I'll wash them away on the first bath.

[cardaddy]

It's more about some of the LC pads are open cell foam where others are closed cell foam. I use a dedicated black one for ULW and have never had a problem with it. However, it DOES NOT like to wash out of the pad though! Yet it's NOWHERE NEAR as bad as WG DGPS 3.0! :eek:

I'll use XMT pad cleaner as well as Megs Dynacone cleaner and clean my pads by hand, then use high pressure hot water and massage then till clean. (Well as clean as you can get one that's applied WGDGPS 3.0 or ULW or M21 2.0.) Basically I have 2 dedicated applicator pads, one that does nothing but WGDGPS because that schite just doesn't want to wash out AT ALL! Then the other for the Megs products. ;)

Keep in mind that you really don't need to see a big thick layer of ULW when applying. That saying "thin is in" couldn't be more true when applying these synthetic wax/sealants.

[Don M]

I'm still thinking pad failure, because not only are they absorbing a lot of the wax, they are collapsing on me as well, going from ~1"+ to 1/4" thick even after only 2 applications of wax. If I decide to try machine application, it will probably be with a polishing pad even though doing that will *waste* the pad for other uses since the UW doesn't want to wash out well.

[Jaretr1]

I saw Mike Stoops (he is the Mike Phillips of Meguiars) do a demo once and someone asked him "is it better to do one thick coat or two thin coats?" His response was perfect. Science dictates that only so much product (the minimum required) will come in contact with the paint. The rest is all excess and is wasted, and makes removing the product more difficult. So basically, thin is very in! As long as any product is getting on the car, even what we might think couldn't possibly be enough, is enough.

[cardaddy]

I'm still thinking pad failure, because not only are they absorbing a lot of the wax, they are collapsing on me as well, going from ~1"+ to 1/4" thick even after only 2 applications of wax. If I decide to try machine application, it will probably be with a polishing pad even though doing that will *waste* the pad for other uses since the UW doesn't want to wash out well.

If you're getting total collapse of the pad, I'd bet my buffers you're overloading them! :eek: (And quite possibly too much machine speed AND pressure along the way.)

All mine are exactly as they were when new, sans not being able to wash all the sealant/wax(s) out of them.

It literally needs to be so thin that you almost can't even see it, YES it's THAT thin. ;)

[70fastback]

I saw Mike Stoops (he is the Mike Phillips of Meguiars)

LOL! Years ago, Mike Phillips WAS the Mike Phillips of Meguiars!

[Jaretr1]

LOL! Years ago, Mike Phillips WAS the Mike Phillips of Meguiars!

I know! Both great guys!

[Don M]

If you're getting total collapse of the pad, I'd bet my buffers you're overloading them! :eek: (And quite possibly too much machine speed AND pressure along the way.)

All mine are exactly as they were when new, sans not being able to wash all the sealant/wax(s) out of them.

It literally needs to be so thin that you almost can't even see it, YES it's THAT thin. ;)

You could very well be right ... I was using a lit of product on the finishing pads, BUT, I even took the speed down to a "1" and still it wasn't any better, but now for the good news:

IT WAS THE PADS!!

So like I mentioned earlier, I was going to use a Meguiar's yellow polishing pad to see if I had any better luck applying the Ult Liquid... MAN DID I EVER! 4 dime sized drops to prime the pad and that amount did the entire hood, 4 more drops, the entire roof and 2 drops the trunk lid. After that 4 drops would do two complete panels. I did have to go over each panel several times, because I couldn't really see for sure where it had been applied and where it hadn't.

For removal, there was no buffing involved, just an easy wipe with a clean microfiber, this is where I found out for sure I had covered every bit of the car, there was a light tug, then smoothness on the second pass. There were no oily swirls, streaks, dark patches, nothing but paint with a super high gloss ... I'm extremely pleased with the process and the results. My suggestion to anyone having trouble like I was ... switch to a slightly firmer pad, it makes a world of a difference