Stubborn Water Spots: Let's Build a Shopping List

[AfroPope]

Hi all,

First off, no photos at the moment due to it being spring in Portland, which means it's grey and rainy so the water spots aren't showing up very well.

Here's the situation - I have a 2014 BRZ and, to put it mildly, when washing it after I got it, I had a tendency to drastically neglect the "drying" step - I had previously only had pre-owned and/or very lightly-colored cars, so I didn't realize that the etching and water spotting was so obvious in darkly colored cars (World Rally Blue), particularly with Subaru's crappy, thin paint.

Add that to the constant rain and a lot of highway driving, and, well, the paint on this car is pretty seriously etched (very few scratches and swirls, though!)

I took the car to a very reputable local detailer, and after finally getting the spots off of about half of the roof he gave me a call and was like "dude, this is going to take me at least three days." The price was going to be in the $1,400+ range, and while I have nothing but good things to say about the work that was done, it was just out of my price range and will be for the forseeable future.

So I'm posting this on a couple of different detailing sites to see if any particular polisher/wheels/compounds/etc emerge as the clear winner due to consensus across different audiences.

I'd like to ask you guys to put together a shopping list for me of everything I'd need to take care of stubborn water spots in the paint and glass of my car. Don't leave anything out - if I already have it, I just won't buy it - for example, I already have a foam gun, buckets, good quality microfibers and soap (Chemical Guys Honeydew), Wax (Chemical Guys XXX, though this tub is nearly empty), and so on.

I am a reasonably competent detailer - I can do the standard wash/wax/clay/hand-polish stuff (like I said, I've had this car for a little over a year and haven't swirled or scratched the paint anywhere yet!) but something beginner-friendly and/or idiot-proof would be preferable. Would like to keep my total bill under $400 (lower is always better, of course!)

I will try to get photos as soon as I can get a direct source of light, be it the sun or lights in a parking garage or something.

Thanks in advance to everyone.

[trekkeruss]

Before buying anything, you should read this first: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/29134-how-remove-water-spots-hand.html

[AfroPope]

Hi Trekkeruss,

Thanks for the heads up. I have already dug through that thread and tried a few of the suggestions (I have almost exclusively Type 2 water spots). While they have helped a little, I think I need to break out the big guns for this project.

[tdekany]

Are you in Portland Oregon or Maine?

[AfroPope]

Are you in Portland Oregon or Maine?

Hey Tom,

Oregon. If the above story sounds familiar, it's because it was your excellent work that showed me "oh wow, my car can look REALLY good." Wasn't sure if you were on here, actually thought about giving you a call. Roof still looks flawless and I can't say enough good things about you and your work. :dblthumb2:

[FinishingTouchA]

Afro, I'm just south of Salem OR. I own a detail shop down here and do a mix between production and AG type detailing. You may not want to hear it but from my experience the best way to take water spots off a vehicle is Acid. G&G is the PRO products distributor for Oregon. Contact them to get some of their "Pro Power."

If you want something less agressive try CarPro Spotless, it works well but sometimes takes multiple appplications on heavy water spotting.

[tdekany]

Afro, I'm just south of Salem OR. I own a detail shop down here and do a mix between production and AG type detailing. You may not want to hear it but from my experience the best way to take water spots off a vehicle is Acid. G&G is the PRO products distributor for Oregon. Contact them to get some of their "Pro Power."

If you want something less agressive try CarPro Spotless, it works well but sometimes takes multiple appplications on heavy water spotting.

I did do a test spot on the OP's car - Spotless or any other water spot remover would be waste of $$$$

[AfroPope]

I did do a test spot on the OP's car - Spotless or any other water spot remover would be waste of $$$$

yeeeeeeeah, I goofed it up big time.

http://media.giphy.com/media/kLGEjXf6yEMog/giphy.gif

[AfroPope]

Tuesday bump.

[U.C.D.L.L.C.]

Also try meguiars wheel brightner. Mist some on a clean MF towel and it should remove the water spots. It works for me all the time.

[swanicyouth]

The reason why your detailer wanted $1400 to remove the water spots from your car is because he has the experience and the products to do such. He has also evaluated the surface and done a test spot - something nobody on this forum has done.

So quite honestly, it's impossible for anyone here to tell you exactly what to get to remedy this situation.

Water spots can be topical, below the surface, or a combination of both. They can be made of calcium, magnesium, and may contain embedded particles from the environment.

IMHO, the correct way to see what you have is to wash, clay, and Iron X the vehicle. At that point, you will need different products and techniques to do your own test spot to see what works.

It sounds the the vehicle needs to be machine compounded and polished anyway, so I'd probably start there. Acids can help with above surface type water spots, but once they are etched it won't do a thing. From the history you are giving us, you likely have some etching.

If compounding doesn't remove the damage, the next step is wet sanding. Wet sanding it best left to someone who is experienced in that technique.


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[AfroPope]

The reason why your detailer wanted $1400 to remove the water spots from your car is because he has the experience and the products to do such. He has also evaluated the surface and done a test spot - something nobody on this forum has done.

So quite honestly, it's impossible for anyone here to tell you exactly what to get to remedy this situation.

True enough. I'm hoping not ENTIRELY impossible, though - the thing is, it would be worth every penny of that $1400 because of how good he is, how helpful he's always been, and how much he knows, but between student loans, medical bills, and an uncertain job market, I just don't have that many pennies.



It sounds the the vehicle needs to be machine compounded and polished anyway, so I'd probably start there. Acids can help with above surface type water spots, but once they are etched it won't do a thing. From the history you are giving us, you likely have some etching.

If compounding doesn't remove the damage, the next step is wet sanding. Wet sanding it best left to someone who is experienced in that technique.

My hope is that I can at least get the car down to a manageable state that it wouldn't take someone three days to finish the job, resulting in a satisfactory final product at a price I could afford. I do not own a machine polisher and am utterly lost as far as different colors/cuts/types of pads and the sheer volume of compounds is overwhelming to me. I'd like as little guesswork as possible when I start hitting those test spots.

[swanicyouth]

True enough. I'm hoping not ENTIRELY impossible, though - the thing is, it would be worth every penny of that $1400 because of how good he is, how helpful he's always been, and how much he knows, but between student loans, medical bills, and an uncertain job market, I just don't have that many pennies.



My hope is that I can at least get the car down to a manageable state that it wouldn't take someone three days to finish the job, resulting in a satisfactory final product at a price I could afford. I do not own a machine polisher and am utterly lost as far as different colors/cuts/types of pads and the sheer volume of compounds is overwhelming to me. I'd like as little guesswork as possible when I start hitting those test spots.


Don't be lost. It's not that hard. What polisher do you have?

Really, people here can help you get the right stuff. A good place to start for a noob would be Menzerna or Wolfgang polishes. Since you aren't 100% sure what you will need (it's good to have everything on hand you may need), I'd get FG400/Uber, PF2500/TSR, SF 4000/FG. If it's confusing, may be better to stick to Wolfgang - as they only make 3 abrasive polishes. Get all 3.

Another option is Optimum lotion polishes. They are very good, noob friendly, and small bottles are cheaper than above. They only make 3 - get all 3.

Then, I would get a few MF cutting pads, foam cutting pads, foam polishing pads, and foam finishing pads. Stick to one company for pads to make it easy. I'd recommend Buff n Shine.

Throw in a bottle of Iron X... Assuming you have towels and clay (and a sale) - you could prolly get all this stuff at your door for under $250 and do it all yourself.


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[AfroPope]

I do not currently have a polisher. The PC7424 seems to be the standard, but I'm of course open to whatever.

I'll check out those polishes for sure, as well as the pads.

[Jbirk]

I do not currently have a polisher. The PC7424 seems to be the standard, but I'm of course open to whatever.

I'll check out those polishes for sure, as well as the pads.

Again, I do not know how bad it is, but I have to trust the one guy on here who did a test spot... you are probably going to need to compound to get them all off, but I do NOT know for sure.

What I would do is go to your local PepBoys and get a bar of that being discontinued Blue ClayMagic for the $6. Wash the car WITHOUT making new water spots... Hit with IronX and then was that crud off. Follow up with Wheel Brightener (Acid stuff but keep it away from anything aluminum and do not leave it on an excessive long time.) Again, WASH IT OFF.

At this point, you will pretty much have everything you can chemically remove that is above the surface. Now, Clay the CAR... I would use car wash as the clay lube but do NOT create more water spots.

Now, what if you apply a cleaner Wax like ColorX by hand? Maybe you can put some PASSION behind the pad to make it "cut" more. You can use a Terry Towel instead of a microfiber for more cut.

I do not know how bad the area is... If it is the whole car, you will need a machine. Period.


The compounds/polishes mentioned here will work perfectly fine. Some folks mentioned Menzurna $$$, others mentioned Wolfgang $$, and some mentioned Meguiar's $... Dollar for Dollar Meguiar's makes some AWESOME stuff that finishes well and some of it has a LOT of cut. In their Ultimate Line, they have only two I know of: Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish. You can buy BOTH of them at Advanced AutoParts cheap (just pay online and select store pickup and search google for "Coupon Codes" - You can save 30% :dblthumb2:... so instead of $18, you are at about $13 and have two (2) bottles totaling a quart of SMAT product for not even $15!!!!

I will tell you right now the Meg's SMAT stuff finishes VERY nicely (emphasis added), and their Ultimate Polish is made from their #205 (probably has a cut of about 3 vs 4 like their #9) and their Ultimate Compound (also SMAT) is made from #105, but it is very user friendly not drying up... isn't hard to wipe up, etc... Oh, and by my estimate it has a cut of probably about 9 or 10 putting it damn near at Meguiar's Diamond Cut #85 only it will finish a TON better and be completely DA friendly.



I am honestly NOT sure Ultimate Polish is up to the job of doing much but making your paint shiny but still spotted, but try it. My guess is Ultimate Compound will likely erase these spots like magic! Oh, and with 30% off you are below $8 per pint of Ultimate Compound... That's a quart of that stuff for under $16. Trust me, the Professional stuff i.e. #105 is over $30 for a quart.


The Porter Cable is the perfect DA; it is cheap and efficacious in the right hands.

I personally have a Meguiar's G110v2 and love it, but there is NOTHING wrong with saving a few bucks getting the Porter Cable. BOTH have the same spindle taking the same backing plates... both have an 8mm orbit etc.

Now the Lake Country pads are cheaper... 5" Pads seem what everybody likes, but thus far I have used only the 7" Meguiar's pads, but I am in the switch to the LC 5" flat ones... just bought 12 of them. Either way make certain the pads match the backing plate (i.e. LC Pads with LC backing plate... Meg's with Meg's etc. ) the reason is the Velcro-like hooks&loops needs to match up to reduce heat between the pad and backing plate. Also the WASHER IS important... It MUST be between the backing plate and DA.


You do not have to go crazy, but you should get probably a cutting, polishing, and finishing pad. Keep in mind the cutting pad will create excess heat and is likely to wear out faster. The polishing pad is the best pad to use at higher speeds, and the finishing pads are more delicate used at lower speeds for waxing, fine polishing, etc.

I hope that helps solve your problem AND keep the costs down. If you were in my part of town, I would say, "drop in"... we would do another test spot, and I would ultimately set you loose to "fix your own car"


While Wolfgang has only three (3) polishes, Menzurna and Meguiar's have systems with only two (2) though they each make dozens... You could do Meguiar's #105,#205, Ultimate Compound/Ultimate Polish or Menzurna FG400/SF4000... the cheapest by far is Meguiar's Ultimate Compound/Ultimate Polish