Dissapointing weekend with a black VW; could use advice.

[Desertnate]

This past weekend, I took on the Spring detail of my black pearl VW.

Last year, I corrected dealer damage and went after the paint with the Blackfire SRC duo. This worked really well and the finish was nearly flawless. The two step process was time consuming, but well worth the effort. I tested with the Blackfire products and the Meg's UC/UP combo and found the Blackfire products produced better results.

This year, I didn't have anywhere near the defects to deal with so I went with only the SRC polish on a white pad. The main issues were Nanoskin marring, and light/mild swirls. Under the lights in my garage, things seemed to be going well, but I did notice some spots required a second pass to get them where I wanted.

I wasn't after a 100% solution since it's a daily driver. I was realistically aiming for 80%. However, once the job was totally done I pulled the car out into the sun and noticed I didn't do nearly as well as I thought. Under the tight focus of shop lights and an LED flashlight it didn't look too bad, but the "big picture" under direct sun revealed I really amped up the shine, but many of the swirls were still there. The unknowing won't be able to see them, but I know how much better it turned out last year.

Two things I know I did wrong:
1) Not enough lube with the Nanoskin
2) I didn't do a sun check before the LSP. I trusted my lights.

Those factors aside, I'd like to get some technique/product advice to keep this from happening again.

- Should I have simply used the SRC Compound and polish again like last year? According to the Autopia chart, it's a "mild" compound. I just hate using compounds year after year.

- Would a more aggressive pad with the SRC Polish have been a better solution?

- Should I look at a medium grade polish like Poorboys 2.5, WG Swirl Remover, Menz 2500, Griot's #2 or similar? Again, I'd rather use a compound as little as possible.

- If I do go with a medium polish, will it finish down LSP ready, will I need to hit the surface with a finishing product?

Thanks in advance.

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

First, exactly which white pad? Hybrid, CCS, flat, etc? Also which machine.

Also when doing a spring cleanup IME, you would want to go a bit more aggressive than your normal one step procedure as the car goes through a harsher environment not to mention the washing sessions that go with it. This time the car will be dirtier than normal.

You should not need to resort to the heavy two step correction like the initial detail after the dealer however a more intensive one step may be required.

As for products to choose from for a medium one step with a good bit of bite, look into Wolfgang TSR or Menzerna SI1500. These two are intensive polishes that land just before compound territory.

As for the way these finish out, that will be determined by how aggressive you need to go via pad choice.

One last thing, what are you going to use for LSP?

[fly07sti]

I would suggest trying an orange pad with the polish.

[ihaveacamaro]

VWs generally have a hard finish. Takes a lot to remove scratches out of them. Try increasing your pad aggressiveness or try the compound in a white pad as a one step

[Desertnate]

Thanks all for the responses.


First, exactly which white pad? Hybrid, CCS, flat, etc? Also which machine.

I'm using a HF DA with a LC 5" backing plate and 5.5" LC white flat pads.


Also when doing a spring cleanup IME, you would want to go a bit more aggressive than your normal one step procedure as the car goes through a harsher environment not to mention the washing sessions that go with it. This time the car will be dirtier than normal.

I did thorough two-bucket wash and then clayed. I'm pretty confident the surface was clean. This wasn't the first time I've washed it since the weather warmed up, so I wasn't dealing with heavy winter grime.


You should not need to resort to the heavy two step correction like the initial detail after the dealer however a more intensive one step may be required.

This is where I'm at. A one-step using a "medium" polish, or a two-step using a "medium" and a "light"


As for products to choose from for a medium one step with a good bit of bite, look into Wolfgang TSR or Menzerna SI1500. These two are intensive polishes that land just before compound territory.

I noticed both the 1500 and the TSR are listed only one step milder than the SRC Compound on the 'ole Autopia chart. Are they significantly milder? It seems WG and Menz have a better spread of products across the polishing spectrum. The huge amount of choice makes it more difficult to determine what is really needed.


One last thing, what are you going to use for LSP?

I'm using 845 for now. When bottle is done, I'll probably move on to something else, but I want to really lock down the prep.

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

I did a thorough two-bucket wash and then clayed. I'm pretty confident the surface was clean. This wasn't the first time I've washed it since the weather warmed up, so I wasn't dealing with heavy winter grime.

The problem isn't the surface at this moment on how well it has been prepared. The problem is that through the winter grime of washing the paint to keep it clean you are dealing with more filth on the paint from salt, mud, debris and whatnot. After many washes through the winter season of getting this heavier filth from the paint, this is causing more defects into the paint.

The only way to stop this is by pressure washing it off to remove the heavy stuff, hitting it with a foam gun and letting it dwell before rinsing off with a pressure washer again. Then proceeding with your 2BM. But this heavy method is too intense to deal with the cold weather.


This is where I'm at. A one-step using a "medium" polish, or a two-step using a "medium" and a "light"

Man, if only Menzerna PP Ultra was available in the states. You could run either Wolfgang TSR or Menzerna SI1500 on the orange pad as your medium one step, and then finish off with PP Ultra on a black pad.

This way on your second step, you are performing your light polishing session while adding wax. (PP Ultra contains the polishing powder of SF4000)

Another option would be Menzerna's new 3n1 AIO. This product possesses the polishing powder of PF2500. However, in your situation of wanting 80% or better, I would run SI1500 on orange first and then proceed with 3n1 on black. Hope I didn't get to far off topic.


I noticed both the 1500 and the TSR are listed only one step milder than the SRC Compound on the 'ole Autopia chart. Are they significantly milder? It seems WG and Menz have a better spread of products across the polishing spectrum. The huge amount of choice makes it more difficult to determine what is really needed.

I wouldn't say they are significantly milder although they are going to be pretty close. The Menzerna and Wolfgang pair are not full on compounds and were not designed that way. They are designed for instances where you need that extra bit of cut from your polish with out getting into the full on heavy correction compound arena.

I may be in the minority but I DO NOT believe in the One Compound One Polish mentality in a one size fits all approach so to speak. Just like automobiles. Gone are the days of the PowerGlide transmission in the GM vehicles that had just your high and low. Today's vehicles have six speeds and often more to give you power whenever needed and keep you in the power band.

The Wolfgang lineup is ideal in that you have your compound, heavy polish, and light polish. Here you have a bit of movement in that you have one more option at your disposal if one may not be working.

On the Menzerna side, you have a product to cover every scenario no matter what you come across.

[Desertnate]

Mike,

I really appreciate you taking the time to help me with this.

Based on your last couple of replies, let me see if I got this straight:

1) My car wasn't as clean as I thought despite my best efforts

2) A two-step is unavoidable on my hard VW paint

I'm not sure how I can get around #1 while not owning a foam cannon. In my area, the water pressure is so bad I'd need a pressure washer too.

#2 seems to boil down to using a product like TSR or Menz 1500 on an orange pad and then finishing off with a finishing polish on white. Today, I'll finish with Blackfire while my supply lasts since I know it works, but may look elsewhere once it's gone.

Thanks again for the help, I really appreciate it.

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

No problem good sir.

What I mean by washing the car during the winter season is that you are washing off a heavier film of filth (salt, dirt, grime) rather than say during a spring or summer wash in which the car would only be covered in light dust and perhaps driven through rain.

In the spring time when it is time to get the car ready by means of polished paint you may have to resort to a heavy polish first and then a fine polish second.

However perform a test spot with TSR or SI1500 on white and that may be your ticket for a one step on your German paint. Im pretty confident this will be the ticket. If not then a two step may be needed to properly execute the spring cleanup.

Let us know how it all works out via update here or a new thread.

[parttimer]

Man, I wish I knew the 3-1 from Menz was 2500, I just did a Mustang that D151 didn't cut it so I switched to 2500 and had to seal it after. Looks likeI will be picking some up!

[Desertnate]

No problem good sir.

What I mean by washing the car during the winter season is that you are washing off a heavier film of filth (salt, dirt, grime) rather than say during a spring or summer wash in which the car would only be covered in light dust and perhaps driven through rain.

In the spring time when it is time to get the car ready by means of polished paint you may have to resort to a heavy polish first and then a fine polish second.

However perform a test spot with TSR or SI1500 on white and that may be your ticket for a one step on your German paint. Im pretty confident this will be the ticket. If not then a two step may be needed to properly execute the spring cleanup.

Let us know how it all works out via update here or a new thread.

Very clear now. Thanks!

At this point, I've already finished and probably won't get another swing at it until fall. I don't have time to start over. I still have the wife's SUV waiting on me...along with the rest of life as an involved husband and father.

I will take what I learned here and will do an update for sure. Hopefully it will be of value to others.

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Man, I wish I knew the 3-1 from Menz was 2500, I just did a Mustang that D151 didn't cut it so I switched to 2500 and had to seal it after. Looks likeI will be picking some up!

I learned that after attending the Menzerna tech academy.

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Very clear now. Thanks!

At this point, I've already finished and probably won't get another swing at it until fall. I don't have time to start over. I still have the wife's SUV waiting on me...along with the rest of life as an involved husband and father.

I will take what I learned here and will do an update for sure. Hopefully it will be of value to others.

Sounds good.

What color and make is the SUV?

[Mike Phillips]

- Should I have simply used the SRC Compound and polish again like last year? According to the Autopia chart, it's a "mild" compound. I just hate using compounds year after year.
- Would a more aggressive pad with the SRC Polish have been a better solution?



This is what I would use if the SRC Polish wasn't removing the defects with a polishing pad.

You can try the SRC Compound with a polishing pad as you "might" be able to get away with just this step before LSP.

You could also just compound the worst areas.

I think using a more aggressive pad with the SRC Polish might work but you also might leave marring from the pad... hard to say without some testing plus as you use the pad it will soften and then it might not be an issue.

Use minimal SRC Compound and a long buffing cycle, this should finish down really nice.






- Should I look at a medium grade polish like Poorboys 2.5, WG Swirl Remover, Menz 2500, Griot's #2 or similar? Again, I'd rather use a compound as little as possible.



Hear what you're saying and feel the same way but sometimes you just have to do what you have to do to remove the defects or spend more time using a less aggressive approach.

Me? I'd take the fastest way possible.





- If I do go with a medium polish, will it finish down LSP ready,

will I need to hit the surface with a finishing product?




The answer to those two questions comes down to the results from your test spot or test spots and your expectation for finish quality before LSP.


:)

[Desertnate]

Sounds good.

What color and make is the SUV?

It's a dark crimson 2013 Toyota Highlander (they call is Sizzling Red Mica...hate the name). The paint isn't Subaru soft, but pretty close.

I recently had great success with Griot's One Step Sealant on a Mazda with slightly harder paint, so I'm going to give it a shot on the Toyota. I'm looking forward to seeing how well the AIO works. It's a daily driver on family duty, so as long as it looks clean and well kept my wife is happy. Previously I've used Meg's UP and 845 with great success, but I'm really leaning towards a coating for that vehicle to cut down even further on the required maintenance.

[Mike Phillips]

I love Nanoskin products because they really do a good job of getting the paint completely smooth and for me this is important as most cars I work on I'm looking to maximize gloss. You can quote me on this one...


"Gloss starts with a smooth surface"


Here's an article on this topic and the type of car where it's important to maximize smoothness in order to maximize gloss.

How to create a high gloss finish (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/85163-how-create-high-gloss-finish.html)


Last week I posted some info about marring and mechanically decontaminating paint.


Mechanical decontaminating = Using Detailing Clay or tools like Nanoskin products to remove above surface bonded contaminants.



I posted a lot of information and some really good high resolution pictures. Instead of copying and pasting it here, check out page 3 of this thread,

Clay questions - page #3 (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/84502-clay-question-3.html)


:)