First time detail - Couple questions, kinda long

[StalkerStang]

I have a black 99' GT Mustang and I'm probably half way through my first detail with it. Overall I'm very happy with the results, but there are a couple areas I'm not so sure how to move on with.

I started with the Nanoskin wash mitt and their bubble bath to wash it. I spent a good amount of time making sure I cleaned it as well as I could. I then removed most the lights from the car, pulled the wing off, removed my chin spoiler, a couple emblems and then taped off trim areas. I'm using the Griot's garage DA and the Meguires 105/205. The paint didn't look too bad, just neglect and haziness. So I started with the 205 using the orange CCS pad. That alone made a HUGE difference, enough to convince me to not use the 105 unless I had to.

Some areas on the front and rear bumpers cleaned up but were still visibly rough. So I tried the 105 there. I must not be using it correctly.... because I can't get the 105 off by hand. It leaves so much residue on the paint that won't come off with any microfiber towels that I have. The only way I could get it off was to then go over it again with the 205. So my first question, is that normal?

From there, I started using the Dr. Colorchip kit to fill in many spots on the bumper and I'm still working on the hood. Overall it works pretty well, not great for anything large, but does a good job on typical road debris damage.

I'm letting the car sit for a week (garaged) so the paint from the color chip process can fully dry before sealant and wax. My next question; I noticed that on some areas of the car (the doors mainly), there are some very light swirls or maybe holograms. I had planned to go over the entire car again with the 205 but using the white pad. Is this a good plan and will it be enough to remove the swirl/holograms I see?

Sorry for the long read and tons of info.... I just want it to be clear what I've done thus far.

Here she is as of now.......

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/StalkerStang/99%20Black%20GT/20150322_184003_zps9g1iprso.jpg
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/StalkerStang/99%20Black%20GT/20150322_184019_zpshyvry8kt.jpg
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/StalkerStang/99%20Black%20GT/20150322_184107_zpsbsq2wj1c.jpg

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

I have a black 99' GT Mustang and I'm probably half way through my first detail with it. Overall I'm very happy with the results, but there are a couple areas I'm not so sure how to move on with.

I started with the Nanoskin wash mitt and their bubble bath to wash it. I spent a good amount of time making sure I cleaned it as well as I could. I then removed most the lights from the car, pulled the wing off, removed my chin spoiler, a couple emblems and then taped off trim areas. I'm using the Griot's garage DA and the Meguires 105/205. The paint didn't look too bad, just neglect and haziness. So I started with the 205 using the orange CCS pad. That alone made a HUGE difference, enough to convince me to not use the 105 unless I had to.

Some areas on the front and rear bumpers cleaned up but were still visibly rough. So I tried the 105 there. I must not be using it correctly.... because I can't get the 105 off by hand. It leaves so much residue on the paint that won't come off with any microfiber towels that I have. The only way I could get it off was to then go over it again with the 205. So my first question, is that normal?

Sounds like you used to much M105. In this case it will dry like concrete.


From there, I started using the Dr. Colorchip kit to fill in many spots on the bumper and I'm still working on the hood. Overall it works pretty well, not great for anything large, but does a good job on typical road debris damage.

I'm letting the car sit for a week (garaged) so the paint from the color chip process can fully dry before sealant and wax. My next question; I noticed that on some areas of the car (the doors mainly), there are some very light swirls or maybe holograms. I had planned to go over the entire car again with the 205 but using the white pad. Is this a good plan and will it be enough to remove the swirl/holograms I see?

Sorry for the long read and tons of info.... I just want it to be clear what I've done thus far.



Yes you will need to refinish the entire car with a second step and M205 on a white pad. M205 and an orange pad is to aggressive to one step black paint.

[Mike Phillips]

So I started with the 205 using the orange CCS pad. That alone made a HUGE difference, enough to convince me to not use the 105 unless I had to.



Might consider that starting with M105 because it will remove more defects faster than starting with M205. It also finished down really nice just be sure to clean your pad after each section you buff.





Some areas on the front and rear bumpers cleaned up but were still visibly rough. So I tried the 105 there. I must not be using it correctly.... because I can't get the 105 off by hand.

It leaves so much residue on the paint that won't come off with any microfiber towels that I have. The only way I could get it off was to then go over it again with the 205. So my first question, is that normal?



The paint on the bumpers is different than the paint on the normal body panels, it's because these bumper covers are a flexible urethane plastic and because they are meant to flex the paint used on them has a flex agent and for whatever reason, (I'm not a paint chemist), this paint seems to buff harder, fade faster and in my experience products wipe off of it harder.

Anytime you get to where you were at, that is a residue that won't wipe off easily, you can re-liquefy it with the same product or like you did the M205 just to make it easier to wipe off.

Some people use a spray detailer, glass cleaner or IPA to wet it and wipe it.





My next question; I noticed that on some areas of the car (the doors mainly), there are some very light swirls or maybe holograms. I had planned to go over the entire car again with the 205 but using the white pad. Is this a good plan and will it be enough to remove the swirl/holograms I see?




If it were mine I would probably just start with the M105 if you're goal is to remove the majority of the swirls and scratches. M105 is a SMAT product instead of a DAT product and you can stop buffing with it at any time in the buffing cycle.

This means you can buff till you're happy with the level of defect removal and then stop, wipe off the residue and move on.

Technically with a DAT product you're supposed to buff through an entire buffing cycle to make sure you've buffed till all the abrasive have broken down before you stop buffing.

This starts to get kind of deep into something that needs to be more simple.

Big picture is starting with the M105 and a foam cutting or polishing pad will remove the majority of defects faster and more effectively while still being very safe versus just M205 which is a fine cut polish with any pad and buffing longer to get the same results.

It all comes down you your time.


:xyxthumbs:

[StalkerStang]

So I probably used too much of the 105 to start with, and then because it was on poly bumpers, it pretty much magnified the issue of removing the product.

I was trying to think of using the least aggressive product like I have heard and read about so much, that's why I didn't use the 105 right off the bat. It made such a huge difference with the 205 alone.

I guess I will try the 105 again with the orange pad and see if it works out better on the doors and hood. I tried using the Meguire's quick detailer to remove the 105 last time and it didn't do anything, maybe I'll try some Invisible Glass this time.

Thanks for the response guys.

[Don M]

So I probably used too much of the 105 to start with, and then because it was on poly bumpers, it pretty much magnified the issue of removing the product.

I was trying to think of using the least aggressive product like I have heard and read about so much, that's why I didn't use the 105 right off the bat. It made such a huge difference with the 205 alone.

I guess I will try the 105 again with the orange pad and see if it works out better on the doors and hood. I tried using the Meguire's quick detailer to remove the 105 last time and it didn't do anything, maybe I'll try some Invisible Glass this time.

Thanks for the response guys.

There's nothing wrong starting off light (205 vs 105) like you did. Starting off on a new detailing session. In fact, it's recommended that you start off less aggressive than you think you need to be and do a test spot ... to see if the combination of pad + product is giving you the results you are after. In this case you did most if not all the car with the 205 and found that it wasn't aggressive enough, doing a test spot could have saved you a lot of time and effort.

So this next time, go with the 105/cutting pad (as others have suggested) and if it becomes hard to remove, just dab a little 105 on a soft cloth to remove it: "Like removes like" ...a liquid version of a product will dissolve a dried version of itself very easily.

[Setec Astronomy]

The paint on the bumpers is different than the paint on the normal body panels, it's because these bumper covers are a flexible urethane plastic and because they are meant to flex the paint used on them has a flex agent and for whatever reason, (I'm not a paint chemist), this paint seems to buff harder, fade faster and in my experience products wipe off of it harder.

Sorry I know this is off topic, but this reminded me I found where Dr. G had posted somewhere that they found the UV absorbers in the clear would migrate down into the basecoat and primer. On plastics, the UV absorber would actually keep going into the plastic, which is why these parts would fade sooner (as many have noticed). Apparently in recent years they have addressed this by putting some UV absorber into the plastic substrate to create an equilibrium and keep the absorbers in the paint, so we may not see this happening anymore on newer cars.

[mc98gg]

Sorry I know this is off topic, but this reminded me I found where Dr. G had posted somewhere that they found the UV absorbers in the clear would migrate down into the basecoat and primer. On plastics, the UV absorber would actually keep going into the plastic, which is why these parts would fade sooner (as many have noticed). Apparently in recent years they have addressed this by putting some UV absorber into the plastic substrate to create an equilibrium and keep the absorbers in the paint, so we may not see this happening anymore on newer cars.

Very interesting, thanks for the info.

[StalkerStang]

There's nothing wrong starting off light (205 vs 105) like you did. Starting off on a new detailing session. In fact, it's recommended that you start off less aggressive than you think you need to be and do a test spot ... to see if the combination of pad + product is giving you the results you are after. In this case you did most if not all the car with the 205 and found that it wasn't aggressive enough, doing a test spot could have saved you a lot of time and effort.

So this next time, go with the 105/cutting pad (as others have suggested) and if it becomes hard to remove, just dab a little 105 on a soft cloth to remove it: "Like removes like" ...a liquid version of a product will dissolve a dried version of itself very easily.

I guess I might have been a tad misleading in my original post. The car overall looks WAY better. The 205 alone changed the entire look of the paint. I would say 75-80% of the defects in the paint are gone. Its just a few areas on the car that need a more aggressive compound like the bumpers, hood, and where I may have introduced some lights swirls on the doors.

I'll have more time this weekend than last to work on it. I'll try to post more pics of it, and better ones showing the paint closer.

Thanks for the tip on using a bit of the 105 to remove the dried stuff. I will try that this weekend. I don't know if I have the time to do the whole car again with the 105 and the cutting pad; I'm trying to have it done and back together for a big all Ford show in April in Cali....

[StalkerStang]

Sorry I know this is off topic, but this reminded me I found where Dr. G had posted somewhere that they found the UV absorbers in the clear would migrate down into the basecoat and primer. On plastics, the UV absorber would actually keep going into the plastic, which is why these parts would fade sooner (as many have noticed). Apparently in recent years they have addressed this by putting some UV absorber into the plastic substrate to create an equilibrium and keep the absorbers in the paint, so we may not see this happening anymore on newer cars.

So this would only apply to new bumpers correct? Repainting older bumpers would still eventually have this problem, unless the plastics in the polyurethane was "updated" with the new UV absorber?

[StalkerStang]

Well I ended up using the 105 with the orange pad and it worked out much better. I then hit everything with the white pad and the 205.

I've made 1 coat with the WG DG sealant. I plan to do another tomorrow. I also have some WG fusion on the way and will get that one in a few days. Still have to get the wheels taken care of and put all the lights back in but here she is as of earlier this afternoon.

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/StalkerStang/99%20Black%20GT/20150328_181911_zpsxulvtaz2.jpg
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/StalkerStang/99%20Black%20GT/20150328_181935_zps5dvbksrf.jpg
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/StalkerStang/99%20Black%20GT/20150328_182148_zpsuidqdawp.jpg

I still get what I think is a residue problem in some areas. Seems worse on the doors, which you can see on the 2nd picture. It comes off but not easily. Doing my best but I still encounter things to show my inexperience with true detailing lol :buffing:

[Setec Astronomy]

So this would only apply to new bumpers correct? Repainting older bumpers would still eventually have this problem, unless the plastics in the polyurethane was "updated" with the new UV absorber?

I can't find where Dr. G posted about that, so I can't find what year it was and when that change might have taken effect. It also might vary from mfr. to mfr. and plant to plant. I wouldn't worry about it, I threw that in because over the years this bumper fading discussion has come up many times and the answer has been elusive.

[Ccrew]

I tried using the Meguire's quick detailer to remove the 105 last time and it didn't do anything, maybe I'll try some Invisible Glass this time..

As a FYI, Invisible Glass if you look at it's MSDS is essentially watered down acetone. Not the kind of thing you really want to take to your paint. At least not in my world :(

[StalkerStang]

As a FYI, Invisible Glass if you look at it's MSDS is essentially watered down acetone. Not the kind of thing you really want to take to your paint. At least not in my world :(

Would explain why it takes stuff off so easily, lol. Thanks for the heads up I'll be more cautious with it in the future.