Pricing for Orange Peel Removal

[DeviousDetail]

I had a client contact me about removing orange peel from his new 2015 F150. What should I charge for this service? About how many hours would you expect for it to take to complete the orange peel removal?

[allenk4]

"Remove" is an interesting word

On OEM your objective should be "Reducing" the OP

With Denim it will take you 20 hours, including compounding and polishing

Wet Sanding will cut that time in half


If he just wants the flat vertical panels done, where it is most noticible, that can cut some time


Ask him what his budget is?

Is he willing to pay you by the hour?

Do you have insurance?

[Kengo123]

"Remove" is an interesting word

On OEM your objective should be "Reducing" the OP

With Denim it will take you 20 hours, including compounding and polishing

Wet Sanding will cut that time in half


If he just wants the flat vertical panels done, where it is most noticible, that can cut some time


Ask him what his budget is?

Is he willing to pay you by the hour?

Do you have insurance?


What process do you use to wetsand and polish out orange peel in 10 hours? What kind of sandpaper and grits?

[Kengo123]

"Remove" is an interesting word

On OEM your objective should be "Reducing" the OP

With Denim it will take you 20 hours, including compounding and polishing

Wet Sanding will cut that time in half


If he just wants the flat vertical panels done, where it is most noticible, that can cut some time


Ask him what his budget is?

Is he willing to pay you by the hour?

Do you have insurance?

Also does insurance cover you if you take off too much clear?

[FUNX650]

I had a client contact me about removing orange peel from his new 2015 F150. What should I charge for this service? About how many hours would you expect for it to take to complete the orange peel removal?
•First:
-Is this going to be a "Show Truck"/"Garage Queen"?

•Secondly:
-Lots of money can be made off this task...
{especially using a DA}

-But have you taken the time to thoroughly explain to the Customer the disadvantages, and risks, of reducing the thickness of the OEM CC...to the extent it will take to make a real noticeable difference in the orange peel?


Bob

[Cosmin]

I had a client contact me about removing orange peel from his new 2015 F150. What should I charge for this service? About how many hours would you expect for it to take to complete the orange peel removal?



based of your website prices , you charge $600 for paint correction on a full size , i assume at least 2-3 steps , so for wetsand you may have an extra at least 2 steps , ... you will quote 5-6 step , that is double , an minim of $1200 , but that sounds light , when we talk about an f150.

as time frame an solid 2days? good products may help on the time and finish quality.

[Paul Mitchell]

Also does insurance cover you if you take off too much clear?

Not being privy to every insurance policy written I'll give you my opinion on what would happen to a licensed, insured and bonded detailer under the majority of insurance policies if he burns through the clear coat.

Liability Insurance: No payment as the damage is excluded under the "care, custody and control" portion of the policy. If the vehicle is in your care, custody or control when the damage occurs there will be no payment.

Garagekeepers: No payment as the damage is excluded under "faulty workmanship". Unlike the Homeowners policy that pays for negligence on the part of the insured the garagekeepers won't pay for sloppy work. Professionals should not damage a vehicle.

Bond: The client is protected by a bond. If the bond pays for the damage to a vehicle the bonding company will then collect from the detailer under the indemnity agreement written into the bond. Payment is made directly to the owner of the vehicle and not to the shop.

[Kengo123]

Not being privy to every insurance policy written I'll give you my opinion on what would happen to a licensed, insured and bonded detailer under the majority of insurance policies if he burns through the clear coat.

Liability Insurance: No payment as the damage is excluded under the "care, custody and control" portion of the policy. If the vehicle is in your care, custody or control when the damage occurs there will be no payment.

Garagekeepers: No payment as the damage is excluded under "faulty workmanship". Unlike the Homeowners policy that pays for negligence on the part of the insured the garagekeepers won't pay for sloppy work. Professionals should not damage a vehicle.

Bond: The client is protected by a bond. If the bond pays for the damage to a vehicle the bonding company will then collect from the detailer under the indemnity agreement written into the bond. Payment is made directly to the owner of the vehicle and not to the shop.

Interesting...

I've been light online shopping for insurance recently. In what situations does insurance come in handy for a detail business?

[Cosmin]

Interesting...

I've been light online shopping for insurance recently. In what situations does insurance come in handy for a detail business?



if someone fail because of your extension cord.....
or is what my agent told me...there are a few more cases but i don`t remember them

[Mike Phillips]

I had a client contact me about removing orange peel from his new 2015 F150. What should I charge for this service? About how many hours would you expect for it to take to complete the orange peel removal?


I prepped, sanded, compounded, polished and machine waxed this old 2-door Chevy in 12 hours with only breaks for a glass or two of water.

I wouldn't recommend anyone to try to do this type of work this fast. Like Cosmin recommended, if you can get around $1,200.00 or more that would be good.


How to wet sand a car - Time Lapse Video (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/70997-how-wet-sand-car-video.html)


Back in March of this year, (2013), I did a complete wet sand, cut, polish and even machine waxed a 1964 Chevrolet Malibu and while doing this project, Yancy set the GoPro camera up to take a picture every minute.

It's been in queue for editing since then but I'm happy to announce it's now been edited and uploaded to our YouTube Channel.



How to wet sand a car


How to wet sand a car




Here's the steps I followed...

Covered windshield using the Beach Towel Tip. (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/30894-beach-towel-tip.html)

Covered interior and convertible top with Eco-friendly drop cloth.

Removed easy to access chrome emblems and script.

Wiped entire car down with Wurth Clean-Solve per what I wrote in post #5 here (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/25915-dampsanding-tools-tips-techniques-mike-phillips.html#post324421).

Taped-off all edges and raised body lines using 3M Blue Vinyl Tape. Tape-off video here (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-car-garage-how-videos/48329-video-how-tape-off-car-trim-before-machine-polishing.html).


Machine sanded all body panels using a 2-step system

First sanding step: I used 3M Trizact #3000 Grit Discs. I used 3" discs for thin panels and around edges and body lines. Used the 6" discs for the major flat sections of each panel.

Second sanding step: I used 3M Trizact #5000 Grit Discs. I used 3" discs for thin panels and around edges and body lines. Used the 6" discs for the major flat sections of each panel.


Removed all sanding marks.
For this I used the new Meguiar's M100 Pro Speed Compound with a LC Wool Cutting pad on the Flex PE14. At the time I did this project back in March of 2013 this compound had just been introduced to the market, so it was a new compound and I think this is the first car completely sanded and compounded and caught on video using M100 Pro Speed Compound. Speed on the Flex PE14 = 1000 RPM.



Removed any swirls left by the wool pad and the compounding step.
For this I used Meguiar's M205, the follow-up polish for M100 with a 6.5" Lake Country Flat Foam Polishing Pad on the Flex PE14. Speed on the Flex PE14 = 1000 RPM


Finish Polished to maximize gloss and ensure no holograms
After using the rotary buffer with the M205 I re-polished every square inch of paint using Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish with a 5.5" Lake Country Foam Flat Finishing Pad on the Porter Cable 7424XP on the 6.0 speed setting.


Machine Waxed
After wiping all the finishing polish off I machine applied Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax using the Porter Cable 7424XP with a 5.5" Lake Country Foam Waxing Pad on the 4-5 speed setting.

Removed Wax
I removed the wax wearing microfiber gloves and using super soft rolled edge microfiber towels.



Comments....
I wanted to document not only the process but how long it would take me to do this type of project all by myself working non-stop. If you watch the video you'll see around the 4:47 time stamp that the car has now been turned around and is facing forward in the garage.

Here's what was going on...

While I did the actual work non-stop, as in once I started in the morning I did not stop till end of day, I did have to spread the work out over two days as I have too many other job duties to process outside of the garage.

The first day I sanded all the horizontal panels and the driver's side panels. The second day I turned the car around and only had to sand the passenger side.

In a number of places you'll see me standing while I either sand and buff or sitting on the floor while I sand and buff and the reason for this is we don't have a car lift in our garage and proper technique when sanding and buffing is to always be looking across from the paint you're working on. This is especially true when sanding and compounding. I always say,

If you can't bring the car up to you, (with a lift), then you have to lower yourself to the car"


The entire process from start to finish as I listed the steps above except for the initial wiping down of the car with a waterless wash and removing the chrome trim took me approximately,

12 Hours

I hustled the entire time. Only a few times did I stop to either take a water break, switch to different products or pads, or talk to someone that may have entered the garage.


I don't recommend ever trying to do this type of work in a hurry as you'll make mistakes so I didn't hurry but I did hustle. Time is valuable for all of us and I did this during business hours so another reason I had to hustle is because when working in the garage, other job responsibilities are on standby.


Besides this time-lapse video of completely sanding and buffing out an entire car, I think the first time this was ever caught on a GoPro camera using time lapse video was when a team of guys and myself did the full wet sand, cut and buff to a 1969 AMX in November of 2012 as documented in this thread,

Time Lapse Picture Capture of the 1969 AMX Nebraska Project (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/58314-time-lapse-picture-capture-1969-amx-nebraska-project.html)



This was a fun project and I hope you enjoy the video.



:)

[Mike Phillips]

To anyone thinking about wetsanding FACTORY paint I would HIGHLY recommend reading this article...


Wetsanding - Fresh Paint vs Factory Paint (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/21471-wetsanding-fresh-paint-vs-factory-paint.html)




:props:

[RaskyR1]

I charge hourly for wet sanding. I wouldn't do an OEM job without an ultrasonic PTG and making sure the owner is well aware of the risks.

[cardaddy]

Whatever he's paying... it's not enough.

Mike is saying something with his links, something VERY loud, VERY clear, and VERY IMPORTANT.

The risk of burning through the clear in any one spot means you could end up on the hook for a total respray on that F150. Not only would you have to pay for that, but now that it's been repainted, it's worth LESS than it was before. That's what the insurance companies call "diminished value" and you'll have to pay that as well.

First, if this is a daily driver, then you need to have a conversation with the owner and formulate a workable plan.

I totally agree that the orange peel is probably bad, and imho is getting out of hand on far too many vehicles these days. With that in mind, what I'd do is tell him the best thing he could do is send it to the body shop and have it scuffed, then a couple more layers of clear coat laid down. After that dries THEN commence to removing orange peel. :) The end result will be just as visually appealing (if not more so) and so much safer to do that it'd make it well worth the price of the clear (even if you footed half the bill for it). ;):props:

With all that in mind, the starting point for a full sanding/cutting/compounding/buffing/polishing/finishing/burnishing/jewelling/hand do-daddling/ and LSP should start north of $1200~$1500.

Like Paul said, Insurance isn't going to cover faulty workmanship. :rolleyes:

Or maybe as "Mama" used to say; "Run Forrest, RUUUNNNNN!". :D

[DeviousDetail]

Thanks all for the great information. He is planning on having the service done in the early spring so I have some time to plan. I will be answering the questions on here in the next couple of days. Busy with packing for a business trip.