Help a rookie out with soft paint

[50spence]

I have a 2011 Subaru Forester with ridiculously soft paint. I am an admitted noob when it comes to auto detailing so this soft paint is currently killing me. I've kept good care of it, but eventually wanted to polish out the fine swirls that developed over the last few years.

I tried using XMT360 with a green LCS pad with my PC and had a lot of trouble getting the paint to come out clean and not leaving streaks and marring behind it. I watched every single YouTube video I could find for months before tackling this because I knew this paint was going to be hard to work with, so I felt fairly confident in my technique, but like I said I'm fairly new to detailing on this level and I'm second guessing myself.

I'm thinking about trying again with something like SF4500 and a black pad, but I wanted to hear what you guys might recommend. Should I try again with the XMT360 and maybe work on my technique? I also didn't want to buy a whole quart of the SF4500 if I went that route since this is the only car I have. It'd take me forever to go through that much product. Is there a smaller bottle available?

Why can't my car be as easy to work on as my wife's Elantra? That thing is a piece of cake to polish/wax!

THANKS!

[fly07sti]

How much product are you using? What speed? How are you working it? Like how many passes, pressure, etc?
IME SF4000 works great on subaru paint generally to remove flaws and finish. Can use a polishing pad to cut defects and usually finishes great.

[allenk4]

1st question is...what does the marring look like?

You mention "streaks"....tell is more

Do you think the pad is causing it or the towels?


The green CCS pad is so similar to the black, I don't think you would be able to tell the difference

[builthatch]

i'm not going to put this out there specifically in response to your issues with your soft paint...because that paint is indeed soft and i guess you could say sticky...i had a brand new 2012 STI so i feel your pain. i didn't have it very long but long enough to know that.

however, i just have to say that while the idea of CCS pads makes sense for some polishes...i am positive that i've had CCS pads leave marring behind on soft finishes before. i swear the way the pockets are formed can hit the finish and leave what look like faint pig tails. never had it happen with flat pads. now my whole foam arsenal is composed of flat pads, mostly B&S now.

[lawrenceSA]

Well I have done a few Subarus and agree the paint is very soft. This makes it very prone to marring from towels once corrected.

During correction the paint can also get quite sticky and so if you can reduce the heat (by for example using a DA as opposed to a rotary) that will help.

Here are the write ups to the ones I have done.... hopefully you can have a read through them and see the results obtained by the products used.

If I recall correctly I have never needed anything more than Menzerna SF4000 to completely sort the paint out.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/60312-java-black-pearl-subaru-impreza-wrx-detailed-lawrence.html

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/67270-obsidian-black-subaru-impreza-sti-detailed-lawrence.html

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/77211-another-obsidian-black-subaru-sti-detailed-lawrence.html

[50spence]

Thanks guys, unfortunately I have been sent out of town for work this week so I can't get any pictures. It is the pads doing the damage, not the towels. I had my DA set on 6 and would do five or six passes. Some areas it looked fine, other areas you could see the path of the pad in the paint. I could only fix it by going back over it lightly. It got to a point where I'd get it "close enough" and not very noticeable, but of course I want to use this as a learning experience to figure out what I did wrong.

[50spence]

Lawrence, I'll definitely be reading through those posts, thanks!

[tuscarora dave]

Xmt 360 is a diminishing abrasive product that needs to break down as it is worked. It may work well on the Elantra because being worked against paint that's a little harder, the abrasives break down more efficiently so it finishes nicely in fewer passes.

Working it against softer paint, it could be lightly scouring the paint because it just won't break down fully in 5 or 6 passes with a DA.

To recommend doing ten additional passes could be irresponsible on my part because you could be unnecessarily removing more clear to do so.

I agree as well that the CCS pads could be part of the problem in a case of super soft paint, but perhaps XMT360 isn't the right product for the job either.

Have you tried a finishing polish to clean up the paint yet? I think you can get pints of Menzerna products.

Yeah... here you go.

Menzerna Nano Polish PO 106 FA, Menzerna Final Polish, Nano abrasives, finishing polish, professional polish (http://www.autogeek.net/menzerna-super-nano-polish.html)

[damaged442]

I used XMT360 on a white LC CCS pad (on PC7424XP) on my parents Graphite Gray Metallic 2011 Outback with good results. Using both 500W halogens while polishing and out in the sun after, I did not see any marring. Once I topped with 845, it looked great!

I did however see some micromarring on my Crystal Black Pearl 2009 Acura TSX using the same setup. Changing pads more often seemed to help. 845 as LSP again, and it was good to go.

I know they are both soft paint, but I figured I'd let you know what I did and that worked well.

[Kamakaz1961]

IMO, SF4500 will be fine for you. They come in 16 ounce bottles. That being said, many here will say get SF4000 because it has more cutting ability.

Since your paint is soft if it were me SF4500 would be the better choice. I use SF4500 and no longer use SF4000.

As for polishing, maybe you should try a white LC Pad. As for CCS Pads, I have had no issues with them. You might consider a Flat Pad form LC.

Orange/White/Black or Red Pad. I am assuming you are using the PC7424XP. If so the 5" Pads would be your choice.

IMO, the CCS Pads you are using is fine. I use them and I have the PC7424XP and they are a great combo.

Maybe you are using too much product and the Pad saturated? I am only giving my opinion on how to improve. Less product (3 Pea size drops) spritz the Pad occasionally and change the pad after 3 panels.

The 3 colors I mentioned are my choice. If there is very little scratches use the White Pad for Polishing.

I hope I helped.

[50spence]

Lots of great ideas. Thank y'all so much. I'll try a flat pad and see if that's a difference. Could someone explain why pad saturation would be a bad thing?

[WRAPT C5Z06]

HD POLISH and a green or blue B&S pad. Done.

[tuscarora dave]

Could someone explain why pad saturation would be a bad thing?

Pad saturation can cause a few different headaches. The most common of headaches that pad saturation causes when using DA polishers is heat buildup in the pad. A saturated pad can cause so much heat in the pad that it can completely melt down not only the pad, but the backing plate as well.

Whenever I invite an aspiring detailer to my shop to learn the craft, I show examples of melted down backing plates where pad saturation was the culprit.

When working with a diminishing abrasive compound/polish, one of the headaches is that too much product saturates the pad and you get a consistent release of product coming to the surface of the pad that hasn't yet been broken down.

This can cause a continuous scouring effect against the paint because a great percentage of the abrasives in the saturated pad are of their original size (having not been broken down) so you just can't get a nice finish. This results in pretty much exactly what you're seeing.

Diminishing abrasives simply work best with a rotary polisher as the rotary quickly breaks down the abrasives and slings out any excess product as you go. DA polishers tend to force excess product to the center of the pad.

I have to wonder if you aren't using an open cell foam pad. Closed cell foam pads keep more of the product against the paint where it can be better broken down, as less of the product can absorb through the closed cells and saturate the pad.

Open cell foam pads combined with diminishing abrasives just increase the headache factor.

Non-diminishing abrasives takes the headache out of the equation, as there is no need to break it down. You simply polish until you get your desired results then turn the machine off, done..

Any of this make sense?

[50spence]

Definitely makes sense. Never thought about that before. I'm using a closed cell pad, but I'm probably saturating it. I was paranoid about not having enough product so I can guarantee I used too much. I wish I knew someone in Savannah that could give me some pointers in person.

[tuscarora dave]

Yeah, it's always nice to have some hands on training. I try to do that when I can. Just had a 2 hour phone conversation with a new forum member last night, providing some insight which he was very grateful for, and I had a lot of fun talking detailing too. It's been a while for me, being active on any detailing forums.