Question about the Flex 3401 and Hybrid pads

[FocusSTguy]

I never thought I'd own one but I was fortunate to recently get a great deal on a used 3401, it was really to good to pass up. I ordered the LC Changeable Backing Plate System (http://www.autogeek.net/flex-xc3401-backing-plates.html) and 3 each of the 5" Blue and White Hybrid pads.

My question is how much more correction does the Orange pad do over the Blue?

My Focus is Tuxedo Black and am looking to remove swrills and a few light scratches. I used CG V34 with Orange Hydro-tech pads with a GG6" DA this fall. This definitely improved the paint but there are still some swirls and a few light scratches. I won't be doing this for a few months but do have access to a heated shop so I probably could do a test spot soon and see if the Blue pads are aggressive enough.

Also any recommendations on which compounds and polish combinations to try first?
I currently have available
M101 and 201
Menzerna FG400, PF2500 and FS4000

[281]

Orange will correct faster if thats what you're asking. Of course, results of your test spot will determine what works best. When I had swirls, Blue Hybrids and FG400 took care it/

Flex3401+ Hybrids +Menzerna = Awesome!!!

[Kamakaz1961]

Orange will correct faster if thats what you're asking. Of course, results of your test spot will determine what works best. When I had swirls, Blue Hybrids and FG400 took care it/

Flex3401+ Hybrids +Menzerna = Awesome!!!

:iagree: Menzerna FG400 and Polishing: Menzerna SF4000 (I prefer SF4500) Spot onn James!!

Now you have 2 Ford Guys saying the same thing!!:buffing:

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

I never thought I'd own one but I was fortunate to recently get a great deal on a used 3401, it was really to good to pass up. I ordered the LC Changeable Backing Plate System (http://www.autogeek.net/flex-xc3401-backing-plates.html) and 3 each of the 5" Blue and White Hybrid pads.

Outstanding! Congrats!


My question is how much more correction does the Orange pad do over the Blue?

The Orange pad offers a bit more of that needed cutting power over the blue pad. The Orange Hybrid pad is the most aggressive foam pad LC offers. More so than the familiar Yellow cutting pad.

While the blue pad is almost on par with the standard yellow pad. However if you equip the 3401 with a blue Hybrid cutting pad and say a GG6 with the yellow cutting pad and reached received say FG400 as the compound, I would say that the 3401 will out perform the GG6 combo due to the forced rotation of the 3401.

Here is an article pointing out the characteristics of the Hybrid pads written by Todd Helme. Take note of his response in the second block #2.
Lake Country Hybrid Aggressiveness Pad Chart (http://www.autopia.org/forums/the-detail-institute-presented-by-autopia-carcare-com/39383-lake-country-hybrid-aggressiveness-pad-chart.html)

Here is another chart written by him on most of the LC pad range and how they stack up to one another. Although the newer yellow Hybrid is not listed. If it were, it belongs between the white and black pad. I personally would also move the aggressiveness of the white pad ability up a notch as well.
Lake Country All Wool & Foam Comparison Chart (http://www.autopia.org/forums/the-detail-institute-presented-by-autopia-carcare-com/39417-lake-country-wool-foam-comparison-chart.html)


My Focus is Tuxedo Black and am looking to remove swrills and a few light scratches. I used CG V34 with Orange Hydro-tech pads with a GG6" DA this fall. This definitely improved the paint but there are still some swirls and a few light scratches. I won't be doing this for a few months but do have access to a heated shop so I probably could do a test spot soon and see if the Blue pads are aggressive enough.

Also any recommendations on which compounds and polish combinations to try first?
I currently have available
M101 and 201
Menzerna FG400, PF2500 and FS4000

As you have the new 3401 and Hybrid pads, my vote surely goes to the Menzerna setup. Since you have done a bit before with the other machine/products and looking for a bit more, I would perform a test spot with the 3401, Blue Hybrid, and FG400. This should correct almost all if not all defects present in the paint. Next pair SF4000 on a white Hybrid to polish the paint to perfection.

Below is an article I put together on maximizing the full potential of the 3401, Hybrid pads, and Menzerna polishes.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-university/77155-my-technique-concerning-3401-menzerna-products-hybrid-pads.html

The 3401, Hybrid pads, and Menzerna polishes are the bee's knee's!

[FocusSTguy]

Orange will correct faster if thats what you're asking. Of course, results of your test spot will determine what works best. When I had swirls, Blue Hybrids and FG400 took care it/

Flex3401+ Hybrids +Menzerna = Awesome!!!
:props: I'm going to try a test spot with this combo first.

:iagree: Menzerna FG400 and Polishing: Menzerna SF4000 (I prefer SF4500) Spot onn James!!

Now you have 2 Ford Guys saying the same thing!!:buffing:
Us Ford guys have to stick together :).


Outstanding! Congrats!

As you have the new 3401 and Hybrid pads, my vote surely goes to the Menzerna setup. Since you have done a bit before with the other machine/products and looking for a bit more, I would perform a test spot with the 3401, Blue Hybrid, and FG400. This should correct almost all if not all defects present in the paint. Next pair SF4000 on a white Hybrid to polish the paint to perfection.

Below is an article I put together on maximizing the full potential of the 3401, Hybrid pads, and Menzerna polishes.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-university/77155-my-technique-concerning-3401-menzerna-products-hybrid-pads.html

The 3401, Hybrid pads, and Menzerna polishes are the bee's knee's!

Thanks for the links Mike! According to the second chart the Blue Hybrid definitely has more cutting power than the Tangerine Hydro-tech I used last fall. That combined with a more aggressive compound and a more powerful machine might be just the right combo. I will try a test spot when the pads arrive. Excellent article on using the Flex. I did have one question that I didn't see mentioned. How big of a section do you normally do? 2x2?

[Guessless]

.... How big of a section do you normally do? 2x2?
18" x18" :props:

[281]

2x2 for me...

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Depends on the pad size.

With the smaller 5" Hybrids around 18x18"

With the larger 6.5" Hybrids you can push the area as you can really cover a lot of area. 24" by 24" or larger.

[Mike Phillips]

How big of a section do you normally do? 2x2?




The 2' by 2' is a standard answers almost every website, article or whatever throws out their for a size recommendation and anyone that's used a PC type tool knows this recommendation doesn't work for these types of tools.

It does work for the Flex or a rotary buffer however because they are gear driven and can tackle that much real-estate at one time.

Large sections do require more work on your part and lots of people don't even own cars with large 2' by 2' sections that also don't have raised body lines or edges that you don't normally buff over. So how big an area you tackle isn't always about what is easy to type on a piece of paper, or forum or say in a video as every car is different.

What I explain in both my first how-to book, my Flex 3401 how to book is that you slice up ANY car by the shape and design of each individual body panel. The worse the condition of the paint, generally speaking the smaller the section you tackle because you really need to focus a LOT of abrading power to a smaller area to remove the majority of the defects key word - effectively.

In my how-to article on this forum, I show with pictures what I would consider the LARGEST size section of paint that would be realistic to tackle at one time here,

How To Use The Flex 3401 (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/55570-how-use-flex-3401-a.html)


This is a full size Chevy Tahoe and the hood on this is about as big as you can get for a modern car, classic cars of course have much larger panels all the way around.


Before
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1551/Flex3401BeforeAfter000.jpg


Here I've turned the polisher on and spread my working product evenly over the entire surface I'm going to work.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1551/Flex3401BeforeAfter005.jpg


I work the section using overlapping passes and a crosshatch pattern...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1551/Flex3401BeforeAfter006.jpg


After

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1551/Flex3401BeforeAfter020.jpg




NOTE: IF you can imagine, me or you, standing on the passenger side of the hood, and then reaching out and running the Flex 3401 from the windshield to the front of the hood that's a long distance to run a buffer for 6-8 section passes and doing it with perfect technique.

You need to plant your feet and lock them in and then use all the muscles in your legs, back, shoulders, chest and arms to effectively compound or aggressively cut that much paint and get it right the first time.

You could of course just tackle half the section I tackled by doing only the back by standing at the passenger side fender and reaching out over the hood and THEN moving to the front of the Tahoe and buffing out the front section.

That would be a heck of a lot easier.

I buffed the entire strip from front to back to show just how big of a section you COULD tackle if you were so inclined due to the power this tool has.

But what can be done on paper, or via recommendations (the old 2' by 2' area recommendation), and what is actually more practical in the real world are two different things.


Make sense?


:xyxthumbs:

[Mike Phillips]

Here's an example in another article on the topic of how to slice up or divide larger sections into more real world sizes to buff at one time.


How to divide larger body panels into smaller sections for machine buffing (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/74401-how-divide-larger-body-panels-into-smaller-sections-machine-buffing.html)


How I would section any body panel would be easier to figure out if I were standing right in front of the vehicle, that said, here's how I would probably divide the hood of a 2007 Tahoe into smaller sections to polish with a Porter Cable type dual action polisher.

If using a more powerful tool, rotary , Flex 3401 or Rupes, you could take the small section I've outlined and tackle more of them at one time. I'd still divide the center large mass of the hood into at least two section and possibly 4 sections depending how much correction is needed.


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/Chevy_Hood_Sectioned_01.jpg



These, longer, THINNER sections of a body panel are the norm for a lot of cars, trucks and suvs and this is why I like 5.5" pads on tools like the PC and even 4" Spot Repair Pads and that's because smaller diameter pads fit modern cars better than large pads.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/Chevy_Hood_Sectioned_02.jpg



As far as the raised body lines go, for the soft rolling body lines I wouldn't bother taping these of just don't hammer on them.

For any sharp raised body lines, bet some painter's tape or if you really want some nice tape, get the 1/4" 3M Blue Vinyl Tape to protect them but I don't think I would using a PC, it's just not aggressive enough for the edges on this body style.


3M Blue Vinyl Tape

Worth it's weight in gold...



3M Vinyl Tape 1/4 Inch - 06405 (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-vinyl-tape-06405.html)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/Blue_Vinyl_Tape_01.jpg



3M Vinyl Tape 1/8 Inch - 06404 (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-vinyl-tape-06404.html)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/Blue_Vinyl_Tape_02.jpg




The big picture idea is...



Break larger panels into smaller sections.




Try to use natural edges, raised body lines and segmented panels as natural dividing lines for the smaller sections.



Avoid trying tackle too large a section at one time when using tools like the PC/Megs/Griot's polishers or you'll end up with shiny swirls.

That is, you'll feel like you're getting a lot of work done because you're knocking out larger sections but at the end of the day, when you do the final wipe-off of wax the swirls will still be in the paint, (because you didn't remove them), they'll just be shiny.



:xyxthumbs:

[Mike Phillips]

As far as the pads go...

I tend to use the Orange, White and Black for cars because they seem to have the highest tensile strength. (That's covered in my first how-to book).


I use the blue light cutting Hybrids for polishing gel-coat after compounding because they seem to work the best to maximize gloss and clarity.


FWIW


:props:

[FocusSTguy]

Mike, Thank you for the thorough response! That definitely answered my questions. I just added your How to use the Flex book to my wish list.

[Mike Phillips]

Mike, Thank you for the thorough response!



No problemo...





That definitely answered my questions.



That's always the goal...





I just added your How to use the Flex book to my wish list.



Thank you for your purchase!


:xyxthumbs: