how to tell if coating is removed

[builthatch]

i was working on a chip last night and had to aggressively polish the area to prep for the repair. i wiped the area thoroughly with IPA after polishing and naturally the telltale sign of removed coating showed up so i figured take a quick video since that question seems to come up a lot.

to clarify what you see in the video, there is a line of moisture after i wipe, with very visible trails to the right of that line (parallel with the overhead light reflection). the area without coating is the area with the trails.

the coating is Opti-Coat Pro that is a couple years old.

https://www.youtube.com/v/xBCK35ZvqM4?version=3&vq=hd720

[GenesisCoupe]

I had to do the same after de-badging my Genesis, polished the small area out and had to re-apply CQUK to that one area.

Coatings are awesome.

[builthatch]

I had to do the same after de-badging my Genesis, polished the small area out and had to re-apply CQUK to that one area.

Coatings are awesome.

you know i've always been told that you have to polish the whole panel and redo it but i have done both ways and not seen a difference...but - that might be something that is sensitive to certain colors. maybe certain colors will show a difference in a spot coating "repair".

my latest technique is a hybrid - if i have to go after damage and polish past the coating in an isolated area, i'll inspect the whole panel and if there is no other damage, i'll finish polish the rest of the panel, but obviously not remove it. then, i'll recoat the whole panel. my theory is that finish polishing gives the previous coating microscopic surface area...texture...to allow the new coating to adhere to.

[FUNX650]

Would the IPA-test (RE: "the area without coating is the area with the trails.")...prove, or disprove, if any of the underlying CC was also removed...during this OC-Pro Coating removal process?

Bob

[builthatch]

Would the IPA-test (RE: "the area without coating is the area with the trails.")...prove, or disprove, if any of the underlying CC was also removed...during this OC-Pro Coating removal process?

Bob

Bob, i do not believe so. the coating seems to have a specific reaction with the IPA vs. bare clear.

i want to add that i have lightly polished on coating before many different times and wiped with IPA to check the work and it would act just like the rest of the panel. to me that always indicated that i didn't go through the coating. in cases like this, i already knew i went pretty far because i had to correct damage - i lost several microns on the gauge getting the clear coat divits out that were collateral damage from whatever debris struck my hood.

i imagine you could do this with water or whatever but since wiping with IPA is just part of the process for me, it's easy.

[FUNX650]

Bob, i do not believe so. the coating seems to have a specific reaction with the IPA vs. bare clear.

i want to add that i have lightly polished on coating before many different times and wiped with IPA to check the work and it would act just like the rest of the panel. to me that always indicated that i didn't go through the coating. in cases like this, i already knew i went pretty far because i had to correct damage - i lost several microns on the gauge getting the clear coat divits out that were collateral damage from whatever debris struck my hood.

i imagine you could do this with water or whatever but since wiping with IPA is just part of the process for me, it's easy.
Isn't OC-Pro advertised as being an additional layer of CC?

:)

Bob

[builthatch]

Isn't OC-Pro advertised as being an additional layer of CC?

:)

Bob

i'm not sure if they say that specifically but if so, it makes sense. that would be a good way to explain coating tech in very basic layman's terms.

so, ok, yeah, coating is like an extra thin layer of clear coat for your paint in function...but not in chemistry.

whatever makes Opti-Coat so hard and have whatever surface tension it does...makes it react differently when wiped with IPA vs. clear.

i would imagine but can't be sure that CQ and the rest of the high perf coatings out there react similarly. i'm very limited in my hands on coating exposure bandwidth to solely OPT offerings.

[FUNX650]

so, ok, yeah, coating is like an extra thin layer of clear coat for your paint in function...but not in chemistry.

whatever makes Opti-Coat so hard and have whatever surface tension it does...makes it react differently when wiped with IPA vs. clear.
...but not in chemistry. Why not?

And...if the following OC-Pro description is true...
Shouldn't OC-Pro be impervious to a weak solvent such as IPA?
_________________________________________________

"Opti-Coat is a hard wearing, ceramic clear coat for superior resistance to scratching (9H) and protection from chemical etching due to environmental impacts.

The Opti-Coat pre-polymer cross links, and forms a continuous protective film on the painted surface it is applied to, similar to a single component isocyanate that forms a clear coat finish.

Opti-Coat has better chemical resistance, scratch & mar resistance, and release properties , than any automotive paint coating in use. It provides permanent protection for all modern factory paints and can also be used to protect metal and hard plastic surfaces."
________________________________________________


Bob

[builthatch]

...but not in chemistry. Why not?

And...if the following OC-Pro description is true...
Shouldn't OC-Pro be impervious to a weak solvent such as IPA?
_________________________________________________

"Opti-Coat is a hard wearing, ceramic clear coat for superior resistance to scratching (9H) and protection from chemical etching due to environmental impacts.

The Opti-Coat pre-polymer cross links, and forms a continuous protective film on the painted surface it is applied to, similar to a single component isocyanate that forms a clear coat finish.

Opti-Coat has better chemical resistance, scratch & mar resistance, and release properties , than any automotive paint coating in use. It provides permanent protection for all modern factory paints and can also be used to protect metal and hard plastic surfaces."
________________________________________________


Bob

OPT coating uses different technology than clear coat that makes it much harder and microscopically smoother once it levels. that is what makes it ideal as something to put on top of our existing clear coat to protect it. it's clear...and a coating, but it's totally different in chemistry.

OPT coatings are totally impervious to IPA solutions...in fact you could throw the strongest strength IPA they normally sell, 91%, on cured OPT coating and nothing would happen. maybe i'm not being clear about the video, hehe.

the hood was coated a couple years ago. i got a chip. i needed to level that area out because there were some divots around the chip from whatever debris caused the chip. in doing that, i removed the coating in that area via polishing, and then a couple microns of clear too, all in the name of leveling. to remove the polish residue so i could put paint in the chip, i used an IPA solution. when you wipe from a coated area to an uncoated area with an IPA soaked towel, the moisture trails behave differently on the uncoated area vs. the other.

[GanenR32]

i'm very limited in my hands on coating exposure bandwidth to solely OPT offerings.

We've noticed.

[FUNX650]

OPT coating uses different technology than clear coat
that makes it much harder and microscopically smoother once it levels. that is what makes it ideal as something to put on top of our existing clear coat to protect it. it's clear...and a coating,
but it's totally different in chemistry.


Let's see...there are:
Urethane Enamel Clears; Acrylic Urethane Clears; Polyurethane Clears.

And:
Since none are the same...
(RE: there are no urethane police):

-Is it the wide variety of polyols, from which to choose, that makes up these Chemistry and Technology differences between Clear-Coats and Opti-Pro?

-What is a pre-polymer resin?



Bob

[builthatch]

We've noticed.

wow, all of that "noticing" in less than a month. very observant.

http://i57.tinypic.com/2j5b0op.jpg

EDIT: oh, welp, you're a "long time lurker".

you sound annoyed. have anything of substance to add that will make you feel included...maybe about another coating or two?


Let's see...there are:
Urethane Enamel Clears; Acrylic Urethane Clears; Polyurethane Clears.

And:
Since none are the same...
(RE: there are no urethane police):

-Is it the wide variety of polyols, from which to choose, that makes up these Chemistry and Technology differences between Clear-Coats and Opti-Pro?

-What is a pre-polymer resin?



Bob

my google research would be the same as yours, Bob. Dr. Ghodoussi would be the best source for that since he developed paint prior to developing these coatings.

[FUNX650]

Dr. Ghodoussi would be the best source for that since he developed paint prior to developing these coatings.
I realize that you keep deferring any questioning of your Optimum Coatings' "findings"...to having myself, and others, contact their Owner/Developer (Dr. G).

Nevertheless, I'm still going to inquire:
On what basis are you stating that Opti-Pro is technologically and chemically different than CCs?

Providing the answer to that would probably go a long
way in proving the veracity of your "IPA-test" protocols.

JMO.

Bob

[builthatch]

I realize that you keep deferring any questioning of your Optimum Coatings' "findings"...to having myself, and others, contact their Owner/Developer (Dr. G).

Nevertheless, I'm still going to inquire:
On what basis are you stating that Opti-Pro is technologically and chemically different than CCs?

Providing the answer to that would probably go a long
way in proving the veracity of your "IPA-test" protocols.

JMO.

Bob

Bob, i refer people to him because people will discuss coatings with me and i will explain what i know. there is a limit to that. people tend to quiz me as if i'm involved with creating the product or i'm a scientist. i'm not, at all. i have researched it to a point and discussed the tech at length with the producer. and i've used it a decent amount. i'm no different than the modern weekend racer who has been building street/strip engines in his garage for the past several years and has learned what he has learned from experience, discussing with experts and the manufacturers and research.

i use it; i don't sell it to you guys. i'm not an OPT employee despite what some people seem to think. there are people elsewhere on the web who claim i'm a pro detailer and am paid by OPT to promote their products on the forums. they also call me a "retard" and an "idiot" in the same breath, so, you know...

i have been promoting my favor for OPT products since around the time i showed up on here in '08 and i didn't even talk/meet Dr. G until several years later.

Dr. G is an ally of mine and has been very helpful with sharing info. so, thus, i refer people to him if they too have questions. i don't sell the product to anyone on here, but i do discuss my experiences with it. and, it's made my life a lot easier as i've discussed in the useless/fantastic coatings thread.

why would i not refer people to the guy who has created paint and the product, vs. some dude who uses it relatively often in his garage?

next point:

i still feel there is some confusion.

when wax or sealant disappears, the paint acts differently with moisture. the surface tension has changed and water acts differently vs. areas that still have that protection. in the same vein, when you strip an LSP, the surface acts differently than when it was waxed or sealed. that isn't a question of chemistry or why those things are different. you don't need to know that to see how those scenarios play out.

what i'm describing as a test is the same exact thing, even though it's not really a test. i am just highlighting it because the question comes up so much about how to tell if coating is there or not, especially when re-correcting areas that have previously been coating.

this IPA thing just happens to occur when i'm doing my post-correction process which involves cleaning the area i polished....and in doing so, i will wipe over the area where i didn't polish. every time i deeply polish or compound in an area that was coated, and wipe the panel, the only area that acts different is the area i polished, no matter how much i try to further strip it with IPA. so that means the only two remaining things that are contacting the IPA are 1. coating in the unpolished area and 2. clear coat in the polished area. the IPA acts totally different in the area i polished. and no, it's not polishing oils or anything because again, i always wiped the area several times with IPA to assure it's clean for re-coating.

[FUNX650]

Bob, i refer people to him because people will discuss coatings with me and i will explain what i know. there is a limit to that. people tend to quiz me as if i'm involved with creating the product or i'm a scientist. i'm not, at all. i have researched it to a point and discussed the tech at length with the producer. and i've used it a decent amount. i'm no different than the modern weekend racer who has been building street/strip engines in his garage for the past several years and has learned what he has learned from experience, discussing with experts and the manufacturers and research.

i use it; i don't sell it to you guys. i'm not an OPT employee despite what some people seem to think. there are people elsewhere on the web who claim i'm a pro detailer and am paid by OPT to promote their products on the forums. they also call me a "retard" and an "idiot" in the same breath, so, you know...

i have been promoting my favor for OPT products since around the time i showed up on here in '08 and i didn't even talk/meet Dr. G until several years later.

Dr. G is an ally of mine and has been very helpful with sharing info. so, thus, i refer people to him if they too have questions. i don't sell the product to anyone on here, but i do discuss my experiences with it. and, it's made my life a lot easier as i've discussed in the useless/fantastic coatings thread.

why would i not refer people to the guy who has created paint and the product, vs. some dude who uses it relatively often in his garage?

next point:

i still feel there is some confusion.

when wax or sealant disappears, the paint acts differently with moisture. the surface tension has changed and water acts differently vs. areas that still have that protection. in the same vein, when you strip an LSP, the surface acts differently than when it was waxed or sealed. that isn't a question of chemistry or why those things are different. you don't need to know that to see how those scenarios play out.

what i'm describing as a test is the same exact thing, even though it's not really a test. i am just highlighting it because the question comes up so much about how to tell if coating is there or not, especially when re-correcting areas that have previously been coating.

this IPA thing just happens to occur when i'm doing my post-correction process which involves cleaning the area i polished....and in doing so, i will wipe over the area where i didn't polish. every time i deeply polish or compound in an area that was coated, and wipe the panel, the only area that acts different is the area i polished, no matter how much i try to further strip it with IPA. so that means the only two remaining things that are contacting the IPA are 1. coating in the unpolished area and 2. clear coat in the polished area. the IPA acts totally different in the area i polished. and no, it's not polishing oils or anything because again, i always wiped the area several times with IPA to assure it's clean for re-coating.
"The precession angular velocity of a "Spinning top",
is inversely proportional to its "Spin speed".

Bob