Paint Cleaner before sealant

[HUMP DIESEL]

I am curious as to what others think about using a paint cleaner such as P21S paint cleanser or Swissvax Cleaner Fluid on a vehicle prior to a sealant? I know that these are typically stated to be used prior to wax, but it should work with something like Sonax PNS as well, shouldn't it?

Let me know your thoughts and experience using either product.

HUMP

[Moldavite]

I was wondering too
isn't Eraser prior to SPNS is easier?

[BobbyG]

If the finish hasn't been cleaned recently then I'd say absolutely!

Finishes oxidize and become stained when exposed to the environment. Washing, clay, and a paint cleanser will brighten up any finish then a quality sealant and wax is perfect to protect and enhance...:props:

Any quality product will work and the products you mention will work well...

[Moldavite]

Thanks for the info Bobby👍

[richy]

I'm sorry, in my humble opinion you're missing the very best one that's out there. It's been out for a while so it often gets overlooked but it shouldn't. Duragloss 50 before a sealant is absolutely the best paint cleaner that you can do. If you add 601 to it at a 4 to 1 ratio, you will also get cleaning as well as protection which can then be immediately top by your sealant. No waiting. Trust me on this one!!


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

[Mike Phillips]

I am curious as to what others think about using a paint cleaner such as P21S paint cleanser or Swissvax Cleaner Fluid on a vehicle prior to a sealant?

I know that these are typically stated to be used prior to wax, but it should work with something like Sonax PNS as well, shouldn't it?

Let me know your thoughts and experience using either product.

HUMP


In a round-about way you're asking about the topic of bonding which is a topic that continually comes up in the detailing forum world.

Sometimes when I type and use the word "wax" or "car wax" I'm using it as a generic term for any last step product or LSP. When it comes to applying an LSP, be it a traditional Carnauba Car Wax, Synthetic Paint Sealant or hi-tech Paint Coating, read the manufacturer's directions for prep and and follow any specific directions.

IF they don't offer any directions then a paint cleaner is good to before applying any NON-cleaning LSP as this will clean the surface so you don't seal in dirt, road film and other surface impurities. Cleaning the surface restores clarity to the paint and enables your choice of LSP to better bond or stick to the paint surface so it will last longer and thus protect longer.


I actually just typed up something like the above for a brand new segment on paint cleaners we're shooting with Dennis Gage at his TV studio this Thursday.


:)

[swanicyouth]

Using those two wax specific products prior to a sealant like PNS sounds too much like Alchemy to me. P21S PC has oil and clay in it and Swisswax CF leaves a heavy oily glaze.

I would use something like Optimum Finish Polish followed by Eraser or Pinnacle BL Surface Polish. Or even a paint cleaner, like Wolfgang, from a line that is geared towards sealants.

[Mike Phillips]

Here's an article with a very powerful picture that shows why you want to clean the paint, using either a polish or a paint cleaner before applying an LSP....


Here's why you need to polish paint... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/68100-here-s-why-you-need-polish-paint.html)



:)

[HUMP DIESEL]

Nice pics Mike. I guess in a round about way, yes, I was actually talking bonding. I have never used one of these paint cleansers, so Richy, I did not mean to leave out Duragloss, I was just not aware of it.

Anyway, would there be a benefit of using this after polishing as a final before LSP? Would I gain anything? Gain as in depth of clarity?

Just curious, looking for that last little bit.

Also, how would this work on a white Toyota which is single stage. Would this clean up the oxidation without doing a full correction?

HUMP

[FUNX650]

IMHO:
"Paint Cleaners" = Poppycock!!

•I just use a fine/ultra-fine polish rather than a "paint cleaner".
-Gives me better results/benefits...such as:
a.) amelioration of any fine swirls/scratches,
b.) takes the same amount of my time and efforts, that it would take:
if using a "paint cleaner".
c.) one less container of product to buy


•If the Sealant directions would happen to call for a
"chemical only paint cleaner"?
-I will use:
a.) Kleanstrip, Prep-Sol, Wurth Clean Solve,
GTechniq Panel Wipe, or similar panel wipes;
b.) Meguiar's D114.


Bob

[Mike Phillips]

Nice pics Mike.



Yeah actually surprised me how dirty the paint was on a convertible streetrod? A car that you wouldn't think would be exposed to road film and air pollution enough to get that dirty. Convertibles without tops are not normally driven in the rain where most read film comes from and cars like this are always kept in garages, so yeah... kind of surprised me.





Anyway, would there be a benefit of using this after polishing as a final before LSP? Would I gain anything? Gain as in depth of clarity?



Common bit of confusion there.... a paint cleaner is an either/or type product. You either use a paint cleaner to prep paint before applying a non-cleaning wax or sealant or you polish the paint but you don't do both.

Applying a paint cleaner after using a high quality fine cut or ultra fine cut polish would not add anything and in some ways could even be walking backwards in the process considering how good many of the polishes are today.






Also, how would this work on a white Toyota which is single stage. Would this clean up the oxidation without doing a full correction?

HUMP


If it were me I would use either a compound or a medium cut polish or a fine cut polish. I rarely and never use paint cleaners because I can accomplish the same end results only using an actual product with some type of abrasive technology in it.

By using a real polish not only will I "clean" the paint but I will also remove at a minimum fine swirls and scratches. Most paint cleaners are non-abrasive so they will only clean the surface not remove defects.

Since it will take the same amount of time, work and energy to apple either, (a paint cleaner or a polish), might as well get the benefits of a polish for your time, energy and work.

Make sense?

:)

[Mike Phillips]

IMHO:


"Paint Cleaners" = Poppycock!!

•I just use a fine/ultra-fine polish rather than a "paint cleaner".
-Gives me better results/benefits...such as:
a.) amelioration of any fine swirls/scratches,
b.) takes the same amount of my time and efforts, that it would take:
if using a "paint cleaner".
c.) one less container of product to buy




I think I listed the same reasons as you for why I would go with a true or dedicated polish instead of a paint cleaner but I have to cater to a bigger picture and paint cleaners are viable options for some people. Especially non-forum car enthusiasts that don't get as deep into detailing as we do...


:xyxthumbs:

[conman1395]

Would a polish like you guys are talking about be like Menzerna SF4500?

[Rsurfer]

A paint cleaner (Sonax) is invaluable for removing water spots on a coated (Opti Coat) surface without removing the coating.

[Mike Phillips]

Would a polish like you guys are talking about be like Menzerna SF4500?


Yes.

SF 4500 is an Ultra Fine Cut Polish


There are 4 categories of products like this,

Aggressive Compounds
Medium Cut Polishes
Fine Cut Polishes
Ultra Fine Cut Polishes


Any product on the market today can be placed into one of the above 4 categories. The issue is determining what is what due to labeling and product naming issues. Rupes has done a great job when it comes to making it EASY for a person to know what it is they are using. Menzerna's not to bad either with their aggressiveness scale. Sonax uses their own creation to describe cut and finish and Meguiar's uses a scale.

To me, the Rupes approach mimics what I wrote in my how-to book and follows the KISS philosophy of Keeping It Simple Simon.

:)