Polymer sealant over Menzerna

[Swift]

I read somewhere, after using mezerna, one must do a IPA/Eraser wipe down and only then apply polymer sealant. Any logical reasoning for this? Anyone tried applying sealant without a wipe down?


Feed back please

[FUNX650]

I read somewhere, after using mezerna, one must do a IPA/Eraser wipe down and only then apply polymer sealant. Any logical reasoning for this? Anyone tried applying sealant without a wipe down?


Feed back please
Unless the directions say to do so:
I apply Sealants without doing IPA, Eraser,
Other-Panel-Wipes, etc. wipe-downs!


Bob

[rodneypierce]

I think peoples thoughts on using an IPA wipe down with Menz are to remove the oils used in the polish.

[PiPUK]

Do as the sealant recommends. In the case of polymer sealants I know and/or make, they will have an oil content anyway and would not be sensitive to a bit on the surface. That said, 'polymer sealant' could be referring to any number of products and some may have a sensitivity.

[DBAILEY]

Its probably a good thing to do to leave out any doubt. In theory it should improve the bond of the sealant and allow for greater durability, but the conditions your car deals with outside will have a lot more impact on the durability.

IPA mix is probably the easiest. Panel wipe like Kleen Strip PrepSol is even better. You can get a gallon at CARQUEST for $15-20.

[Mike Phillips]

I read somewhere, after using Menzerna, one must do a IPA/Eraser wipe down and only then apply polymer sealant.

Any logical reasoning for this? Anyone tried applying sealant without a wipe down?





Another "bonding" thread....


The history of stripping paint before applying a synthetic sealant can trace it roots, for the most part, to the introduction of the Zaino line of products.

Theory goes, that in order for a synthetic sealant to form or create the most efficient bond to an automotive paint any substance, besides the paint itself must first be removed. This would include polishing oils used in compounds and polishes.


I've been answering questions on this topic my entire forum life, the short answer is follow the manufacturers directions.

If on the label of the product it states to chemically strip the paint before applying the product then do so... if it doesn't then do not.

The FEAR is that if there are residual polishing oils on the surfaces after polishing that the "protection ingredients" will not bond/adhere/stick/polymerize/crosslink/superNANOattach or fill in the blank for whatever the "magic" is that keeps the sealant from slipping off while you're not looking.

Me? I like to keep it simple, after polishing the paint, apply the sealant. If I were using Zaino or any modern coating that requires a surgically clean surface then "yes" I would chemically strip the paint. But if it's a normal "Car Wax" or "Synthetic Paint Sealant" (like you're using), I would waste the time or energy to work backwards and chemically strip the paint before applying any of the Menzerna sealants to a Menzerna polished surface.


Keep in mind, the detailing discussion forum has a component to it that takes what should be very simple and over complicates it.

In fact, I have an article on this topic.... don't scan it... digest it.


Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/31186-miscible-immiscible-wax-paint-sealant-bonding.html)



Sheldon explaining Quantum Physics to Penny on the Big Bang Theory
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/715/molculesbonding.jpg


:D

[DBAILEY]

Mike, I do remember the fuss that Zaino created over this. I also think that the realization of how much the polishes we've been using containing 'trade secret oils' for lack of better term were masking the true surface condition after polishing was completed. Seems like it became big deal when Menzerna's consumer polishes became available about 9-10 years ago and there was always a debate about holograms re-appearing after a week or too. I remember certain detailers getting into heated debates with the Menz reps regarding the unintentional masking of defects.

[Mike Phillips]

Seems like it became big deal when Menzerna's consumer polishes became available about 9-10 years ago and there was always a debate about holograms re-appearing after a week or too.



I've never used any of thier Consumer Line, heck I didn't even know they had one? I've used and Autogeek carries their Professional Line.





I remember certain detailers getting into heated debates with the Menz reps regarding the unintentional masking of defects.



I'm glad I was never a part of those polish wars...


:D

[Kamakaz1961]

Thank you for this article. And WHEW!!! I did it right!! I just finished detailing my buds Shelby GT. I polished the car with Menz SF4500 and went straight to sealant topped off with a wax.....Looks great!!

All these threads are great for 1 thing...it makes us all better!! And when Kimosabi Mike Phillips speaks....we listen!!...Have a great day everyone!!

[Swift]

Another "bonding" thread....


The history of stripping paint before applying a synthetic sealant can trace it roots, for the most part, to the introduction of the Zaino line of products.

Theory goes, that in order for a synthetic sealant to form or create the most efficient bond to an automotive paint any substance, besides the paint itself must first be removed. This would include polishing oils used in compounds and polishes.


I've been answering questions on this topic my entire forum life, the short answer is follow the manufacturers directions.

If on the label of the product it states to chemically strip the paint before applying the product then do so... if it doesn't then do not.

The FEAR is that if there are residual polishing oils on the surfaces after polishing that the "protection ingredients" will not bond/adhere/stick/polymerize/crosslink/superNANOattach or fill in the blank for whatever the "magic" is that keeps the sealant from slipping off while you're not looking.

Me? I like to keep it simple, after polishing the paint, apply the sealant. If I were using Zaino or any modern coating that requires a surgically clean surface then "yes" I would chemically strip the paint. But if it's a normal "Car Wax" or "Synthetic Paint Sealant" (like you're using), I would waste the time or energy to work backwards and chemically strip the paint before applying any of the Menzerna sealants to a Menzerna polished surface.


Keep in mind, the detailing discussion forum has a component to it that takes what should be very simple and over complicates it.

In fact, I have an article on this topic.... don't scan it... digest it.


Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/31186-miscible-immiscible-wax-paint-sealant-bonding.html)



Sheldon explaining Quantum Physics to Penny on the Big Bang Theory
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/715/molculesbonding.jpg


:D


First, its very first time you have answer my post. Thank you so much. Your posts are like treasure.
Before I asked the question, I did following steps.

1) Read this following link on Menzerna Polishes. http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/11443-menzerna-polishes-methodology-part-i.html (refer to point # 7)
2) If only there was Manufacture instructions L I emailed Menzerna and Finish Kare 2180 (Sealant I am using), no answer.
3) Check the bottle’s label looked up at videos for application instructions. Nothing solid

4) I did bonnet with Polish> Sealant > Wax and I did roof Polish > wax.


5) After polishing (no IPA wipe down) and sealant, surface, felt dry (no oily surface) and slick. Does it mean that polish and sealant is working together?

6) What are tell tale signs that Polish and Sealant combo isn't working?

[custmsprty]

I agree with Mike P.

I've never done an IPA wipe down after polishing with Menzerna or any AG polishes and their sealants and have never had any "bonding issues"

[Mike Phillips]

Thank you for this article. And WHEW!!! I did it right!! I just finished detailing my buds Shelby GT. I polished the car with Menz SF4500 and went straight to sealant topped off with a wax.....Looks great!!

[/quote}

Pictures?



[QUOTE=Kamakaz1961;1173258]

All these threads are great for 1 thing...it makes us all better!! And when Kimosabi Mike Phillips speaks....we listen!!...Have a great day everyone!!



Thanks for the kind words... someday I'll be gone and I hope to leave a positive legacy in the forum world where I'm remembered for helping others...






First, its very first time you have answer my post. Thank you so much. Your posts are like treasure.



Thank you.... right now at Autogeek it's crazy busy and won't slow down till after Thanksgiving so I don't have much forum time... I'm typing out this reply and then going out to the studio to set-up for the Cars & Coffee show today.






Before I asked the question, I did following steps.

1) Read this following link on Menzerna Polishes.
(refer to point # 7)



Point #7 is about chemically stripping the paint so the protection ingredients in the sealant will stick. You can if you want but I don't.

I'd also point out that,

A: If you don't, you wont get up in the morning, walk out to your car to find the sealant slipped off the paint and piled up on the ground surrounding your car as a gooey mess. Ain't going to happen.

B: Most of us, me included, by just the fact that we're on a detailing discussion forum, probably means we re-wax or re-seal the paint on our cars a lot more often than Joe Consumer so while longevity is a great feature it's less of an issue for us as we're going to re-apply something way before the last coat of something has complete worn off.







2) If only there was Manufacture instructions L I emailed Menzerna and Finish Kare 2180 (Sealant I am using), no answer.



From my experience in this industry and close relationships with a lot of people behind the companies of the products we use I'd have to say most of these people don't get as deep as people in the forum world.

Wash, wax move on is more the sytle...





3) Check the bottle’s label looked up at videos for application instructions. Nothing solid



It's not that complicated. After you remove the polish apply the sealant, let it dry and then wipe it off. I don't even try to get 100% of the polishing oils off the paint I let the sealant remove them all when I wipe the sealant off. I'm a lot less anal than most I'm guessing.





4) I did bonnet with Polish> Sealant > Wax and I did roof Polish > wax.



That'll work...





5) After polishing (no IPA wipe down) and sealant, surface, felt dry (no oily surface) and slick. Does it mean that polish and sealant is working together?



Yes, I'd say so...





6) What are tell tale signs that Polish and Sealant combo isn't working?




I'm not sure there is a way to tell because as long as you're using quality products and even doing only mediocre work then you're going to get good results.


:)

[Don M]

A former boss actually uses the LSP to remove the #7 that he put down prior (he uses M-26 / Yellow Paste Wax) and he doesn't seem to have lost any durability of the 26 doing it that way.