Single stage question?

[808_detail_nut]

I was wondering something, I have not worked on many single stage paint work and the can't remember the last time I did. How can you tell if it is or is BC/CC or single? Im asking because I was working on a 2002 white toyota tundra today that most likely never got clayed ever. Paint was in bad shape but didn't show much oxidation. After washing I inspected the paint and it was really brownish which is something I have seen before many times from neglected white paint. So I went to clay it using the medium grade Claymagic and it was turning white or had a white residue. Could this be the paint coming off? I was watching a video on the youtube auto geek channel about coatings and I heard Ranney Doyle say something about some Toyota cars sent to hawaii from the manufacturer, that were white were actually single stage. Anyone encounter this or am I just thinking too much. Thanks.

[jarred767]

I was wondering something, I have not worked on many single stage paint work and the can't remember the last time I did. How can you tell if it is or is BC/CC or single? Im asking because I was working on a 2002 white toyota tundra today that most likely never got clayed ever. Paint was in bad shape but didn't show much oxidation. After washing I inspected the paint and it was really brownish which is something I have seen before many times from neglected white paint. So I went to clay it using the medium grade Claymagic and it was turning white or had a white residue. Could this be the paint coming off? I was watching a video on the youtube auto geek channel about coatings and I heard Ranney Doyle say something about some Toyota cars sent to hawaii from the manufacturer, that were white were actually single stage. Anyone encounter this or am I just thinking too much. Thanks.

Could easily be SS paint, Toyota used a lot of SS paints, especially on white vehicles, most times I come across SS, it's on a Toyota. I even did a 2008ish FJ Cruiser a few months ago that was SS paint, not sure why they are still sending cars out like this when clear coats are on just about every other car out there.

Your description of the white residue on the clay sounds very familiar to what I've seen when claying SS paints. To make sure hit it with a some sort of compound by hand on a clean area and if you get paint residue coming off (applicator turns white) you're most likely working with SS.

[808_detail_nut]

Did a little more research and it seems like it is. Toyota does it to some white, red, and black cars. The guy is kind of lucky that it was because if it was clear coated, I'm sure it would have been beyond repair.

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[oldmodman]

Yes it is the chalking coming off. Here is what I did to my 2002 Single Stage White Corolla

You should give it the Mike treatment. Read this article he wrote before you give it a try.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/25304-secret-removing-oxidation-restoring-show-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html

I got a quart of Meguiars #7 and "nourished" the paint after I had washed, decontaminated, and clayed it. I left a heavy coating of #7 on the paint overnight in the garage and rubbed it off the next day using a terry cloth towel. Then I hit it with a second coat. After the pain had some "life" injected back into it I used a mild polish on it and it looked almost like new.

[Mike Phillips]

How can you tell if it is or is BC/CC or single?

Im asking because I was working on a 2002 white toyota tundra today that most likely never got clayed ever. Paint was in bad shape but didn't show much oxidation. After washing I inspected the paint and it was really brownish which is something I have seen before many times from neglected white paint. So I went to clay it using the medium grade Claymagic and it was turning white or had a white residue.




I was calling on body shops, dealerships and detail shops back in the late 1980's as a Rep/Trainer for Meguiar's and it was during this time that car manufacturers were switching over from shooting single stage paint systems to basecoat/clearcoat paint systems.

Keep in mind as the manufacturers were switching over all the privately owned body shops and body shops at dealerships also had to change over.

During the change, the first cars to go from single stage to bc/cc were high end cars and just "cars". Large transportation items like Vans, Suburbans, Truck, etc. followed cars as it cost more to paint them.

Another "transportation vehicle" that didn't change over were any vehicles that were to be painted white. One or some of the reasons were cost, it cost more to paint a car bc/cc back then so it was less costly to shoot single stage white paint.

Also durability. Single stage white paint gets it's color from the pigment mineral Titanium Dioxide Powder. This mineral pigment is very hard and when mixed with single stage paint resin it makes the resin or paint hard and this hardness factor makes it very durable. It will still oxidize but it will also hold up a long time.

Think about it... what color do they paint REALLY LARGE "things" that are exposed to the outdoors that you really don't want to have to paint over and over again due to all the costs involved.

Hmm.....


Jets and airplanes?
Water Holding Tanks in the countryside?
Commercial vans and trucks
Houses and buildings


I also discuss Titanium Dioxide Powder in the below article that I wrote back in 1997 and if you've never read this article below I highly recommend it as it's jam-packed with tons of information besides why you need to use a paint cleaner or cleaner/wax periodically when taking care of daily drivers.

The Lesson White Paint Teaches Us (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/22982-lesson-white-paint-teaches-us.html)



Lots of people have told me it's one of their favorite articles I've ever written. FWIW.



For those reading this into the future, heres' my article on how to test for single stage paint INCLUDING how to test for single stage white paint because you test differently for white paint than you do for colored paint and I've never seen this explained anywhere else on the net or in any book, magazine article, video etc.


How to Test for Single Stage or Clear Coat Paint (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/34829-how-test-single-stage-clear-coat-paint.html)


It's also covered in my how-to books The Art of Detailing and the second edition of this book, The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine. This how-to book is very detailed and LOADED with information you could spend a lifetime learning.

The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine on the Apple iBookstore (http://www.autogeek.net/ibook.html)
The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine - Paperback (http://www.autogeek.net/how-to-create-a-show-car-shine-book.html)
The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine - E-book (http://www.autogeek.net/complete-guide-to-shine-e-book.html)


:)

[Mike Phillips]

After washing I inspected the paint and it was really brownish which is something I have seen before many times from neglected white paint.




Here's a very good article with great pictures that show what happens to ALL colors of paint over time. While you normally only see this on white cars, the brownish or grayish clouding effect, it happens on all colors.


Here's why you need to polish paint... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/68100-here-s-why-you-need-polish-paint.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1970/Dirty_Old_Ford_006.jpg



:dblthumb2:

[Don M]

The Lesson White Paint Teaches Us (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/22982-lesson-white-paint-teaches-us.html)



Lots of people have told me it's one of their favorite articles I've ever written. FWIW.





I agree, it's one of the most eye opening articles I first read when getting into the forums GOOD READ!

[808_detail_nut]

Thank you so much for this. It really opened my eyes to the dynamics involved in detailing single stage paint. The article on stained paint is awesome along with the others. I did wash and clay the paint last week but didn't have time to clean and light polish because the customer needed his truck so I just hit it quickly with aquawax and let him take it. He dropped it off again today and gave me 3 days to detail the inside and polish his weld chrome rims. I know I'm going to have more time so I might try out the megs 7. I have a bottle I never used so I'm gonna try that tomorrow. Let you guys know how it comes out. Thanks again mike.


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[808_detail_nut]

Sorry one more question, if I use klasse aio after the #7 left overnight, I shouldn't have to light buff right? I could go right to AIO then klasse sealent/glaze yea.

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[Don M]

Sorry one more question, if I use klasse aio after the #7 left overnight, I shouldn't have to light buff right? I could go right to AIO then klasse sealent/glaze yea.

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Correct, I might do the AIO twice depending on if there is any "greasiness" left from the #7

[808_detail_nut]

Ok so I decided to start from scratch so what I did after I got done doing the interior was rewash. Then I re clayed with the nanoskin mitt (fine) with a dawn and water solution with a capful of Klasse AIO. I figure that would remove the aqua wax I had applied the week before. Not sure if that was smart but it did clean the paint better than when I used the medium claymagic I thought. Here is what the paint looked like when I got it last week, the runs you see are where I used the acid (MX7 plus) around the emblems, trim and antenna. That usually cleans the areas I can reach with the clay.



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[808_detail_nut]

Sorry pressed the submit button. Lol.

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You can see how stained the paint is. Here are some I just took before he came to pickup.

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I'm happy with how it came out. Also threw in a hand polishing of his rims and a headlight restoration.

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Sorry it's dark but here is the finished product. Wish I could see it in the sun. There are some dull spots still but pretty good I think.

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