Audi r8 hard paint

[Taxdr1965]

New to detailing using a PC and using M105 with a yellow meguairs foam pad. Have done several slow passes but I can still see small spiderweb swirls in the paint. I am using speed 5 with about 10 lbs of pressure. I would say it cleared about 75% of the swirls. I then used meguairs ultimate polish on speed 4.

Am I being too picky? You can only see them in the sunlight at the wrong angle, or with flashlight.

I entered a concours d elegance this past weekend and got first place, so it must be pretty good, but the swirls are still bugging me.

Any advise would be appreciated.

[Rayaz]

I've found 105 to be pretty aggressive so I don't think the polish is the issue. Without knowing what else you have it's hard to suggest anything else.

The real trick is to take as little clear as possible to get rid of the defects. You'll notice people here leaving some scratches alone because they would have to go deeper than is prudent. Always go with the least aggressive combinations to get the desired result. Beyond a new paint job, you can't put paint back once you polish it off.

If you're winning concours trophys, you must be something right!

[davey g-force]

Try using a MF pad...

[allenk4]

Read Mike Phillips thread on polishing with a 7424

There are lots of variables

Maybe a few more passes will do the trick

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Hi, welcome to AGO!

The PC and M105 usually has enough power to pull out swirls when equipped with the right pad. The yellow Meguiar's pad you mention is actually a polishing pad. Not a cutting pad. The burgandy cutting pad Meguiar's makes is decent but only for rotary use.

You can grab some smaller 5.5 LC pads which the PC will rotate better. You could also grab the Meguiar's mf pad system kit which will provide more cut.

It all depends on what pad/polishes you prefer to work with.

[refreshauto]

just worked on an R8, real hard paint. i used Uber Compound with the orange LC hybrid pad and my Flex 3401. with the PC you want to be on setting 6, mark your backing plate, slow arm movement and get a more aggressive pad and you should be ok.

[mg6045]

MF pad for sure. D300/105, FG400 or Scholls S3. using a pc its takes quite a while.

[Mike Phillips]

New to detailing using a PC and using M105 with a yellow meguairs foam pad.



Just to chime in....


Thick versus Thin
I hate assuming in forum replies but here goes anyway...

Assuming you mean the yellow W8006 or the W8207, both are about 1 1/4" thick. The W8006 is 6.5" in diameter and the W8207 is 7" in diameter.

That's a lot of foam mass and surface area to make the Porter Cable 7424XP or ANY copy of the Porter Cable that uses the free floating spindle bearing design rotate.


Pad Saturation
Plus, the wetter the pad becomes with the product you're using the worse the pad rotation gets. This is called pad saturation and there's no way to avoid it when using foam pads. It's much less of a problem with thin microfiber pads to the point that it's really not an issue especially if you're cleaning your microfiber pads often with compressed air.

Keep in mind the thicker the foam pad the more liquid it can hold and the worse the performance of the pad the wetter it gets and all of this reduces pad rotation.



Pad Rotation
And here's the law of removing defects. In order to remove swirls, which is actually removing paint, the pad MUST rotate.


Years ago I wrote an article where I coined the term,

Thin is in...

And thin pads truly are the way to go with these types of tool, not thick pads and certainly not thick large diameter pads. It already takes a long time to completely buff out a swirled out car using thin pads, using large thick pads will just make the job take longer and you'll never be as efficient when buffing.

If you want proof that thin is in, just take a look at Meguiar's Xtra Cut Microfiber Pads. Jason Rose and his team designed their DA Microfiber System to do a solve a number of issues in the production detailing world, one of the issues they tried to change and fix was the reliance of this industry to buff out cars using only rotary buffers. The reason why is because in untrained, unskilled hands the rotary buffer does more damage than good by instilling swirls or holograms into the paint and burring edges.

So they made the bold move to switch this industry over to safer dual action polishers.

The problem to overcome was how to provide FAST CORRECTION ability with a much weaker tool. And part of the way they solved this problem was to maximize efficiency of both the oscillation and rotation ability offered by their G110v2 and other tools like the Porter Cable and Griot's Garage dual action polishers.

And the way they maximized the efficiency of these tools was to introduce a very thin microfiber cutting pad. Because it's only 1/8" thick, actually it's more accurate to write, because it's only 1/8" thin, there's no mass to the pad to bog down the machine. Heck you've only added a tiny amount of material and slapped it onto the backing plate and this enables maximum oscillation and rotation from these types of tools.



Polishing versus Cutting
One more thing... the yellow Meguiar's foam pad you're using is a "polishing" pad, not a cutting pad. You'll get better defect removal power by switching to a foam "cutting" pad and safe the "polishing" pad for the next step after the defects are removed.



Back to removing defects out of hard clearcoats...
Now let me bring this back to point.... if using a THIN pad enables these types of tools to work best... then the opposite can be said about thick pads. That is the thicker and larger the diameter of the pad the worse these tools will work when doing any type of correction or polishing work or when using a one-step cleaner/wax. (AIO for you guys that like that acronym instead of the words cleaner/wax as they are the same thing).

I've worked on very hard Audi clearcoats and in my opinion they are some of the hardest if not the hardest clears in the industry today.

So here's the deal... if you're going to own and work on this Audi then do yourself a favor and get either some Meguiar's Microfiber Cutting Pads or get some Lake Country thin foam cutting pads.

I'm not a huge fan of microfiber pads because,


A: I don't do production work. (I teach it but I don't do it)

B: I like the cushion or feel of a thin foam pad and I prefer the ability of a foam pad to more easily contour to curved panels.


Plus... If I really need cutting power instead of using a dual action polisher with a microfiber pad I'll just use a rotary buffer with a wool or foam cutting pad and getting the chopping over with and be done with it. So that's why I don't need microfiber pads... I know how to use a rotary buffer and it is the FASTEST way to remove paint defects. The second fastest way is to use a Flex 3401 with a wool or foam cutting pad.

But I digress....


Suggestions...

To get more of the defects out of your car's clear coat you want to either get some microfiber pads or some thin foam cutting pads.


One of the most common articles I share if not the most often shared articles I've ever wrote is this one....

Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-car-garage-how-videos/49489-video-mark-your-backing-plate-make-easy-see-pad-rotation.html)


Besides teaching you the tip of marking your backing plate to make it easy for your eyes to see if the backing plate is actually rotating or just vibrating against the paint if you scroll down the page just a little it shows you which backing plate and pads to get plus even MORE information to help people get the results they're striving for. Like this article,

DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/37769-da-polisher-trouble-shooting-guide.html)


Wrote that back in 2005 and I highly recommend reading it BEFORE you turn a dual action polisher on as it will prevent you from making all the common mistakes.






Have done several slow passes but I can still see small spiderweb swirls in the paint. I am using speed 5 with about 10 lbs of pressure.



Your close....

Bump the speed up to the 6 setting on the dial and push down about 15 pounds of pressure. Don't push down so hard you hear the motor bog down excessively but do press down firmly.

The pad should still rotate at a pretty good clip. This is in the article I give you the link to above, DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide.


Hope that helps and since this was your first post to our forum...

Welcome to AutogeekOnline!


:welcome:

[Mike Phillips]

I entered a concours d elegance this past weekend and got first place, so it must be pretty good, but the swirls are still bugging me.




Congratulations!


How about a picture of the car and the trophy?


:Picture:

[Taxdr1965]

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/2297/photo_3_2_.jpg



http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/2297/photo_1_2_.jpg


So if I go with a LC orange pad is that the correct pad??. Your correct I did use the yellow 6.5 meguairs foam pad as that is what I thought was the correct pad to use with m105. IS there a different orange LC pad that is thinner???

[Mike Phillips]

So if I go with a LC orange pad is that the correct pad??.



If you want to go with a foam cutting pad then "yes". I included this link above... besides showing you to mark your backing plate there is a TON of information that will help you get the pads you want.

Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-car-garage-how-videos/49489-video-mark-your-backing-plate-make-easy-see-pad-rotation.html)







Your correct I did use the yellow 6.5 meguairs foam pad as that is what I thought was the correct pad to use with m105.



Nothing wrong with using the 6.5" Megs yellow foam polishing pad with M105 but there's better options when working on hard clearcoats and that's what I typed-out above in my first reply. It's pretty detailed too.... post your same question to any other forum and gauge the replies you get against this one.





IS there a different orange LC pad that is thinner???



At this time, 7/8" of an inch is as thin as DA foam pads come. There's nothing wrong with this thinness or size. If you click this link, you'll see pictures and measurements.

Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-car-garage-how-videos/49489-video-mark-your-backing-plate-make-easy-see-pad-rotation.html)


I cover all of this in my how-to book which is also available on iTunes....

The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine Paperback Book by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/80828-complete-guide-show-car-shine-paperback-book-mike-phillips.html)


Nice car!

:dblthumb2:

[Taxdr1965]

Wow, I really appreciate your time. Just got my LC orange ,white, and black pads today. I will follow your advise. Thanks so much again

[Taxdr1965]

Used LK Orange pad with m105 and the spiderwebs still remain. Would using merenza fg400 help? Or at this point just get a microfiber cutting pad with d300?

[davey g-force]

I'd get the MF pads...

[Wes Bremec]

R8 clear is extremely hard to my knowledge. I would suggest grabbing some 5.5 inch surbuf pads. This combo with m105 should give you the correction your going after.