Didn't pass the Baggie Test?

[MarkD51]

Hello All,
Today, I wanted to apply CQuartzUK to the majority of my Tahoe.
I got that basically accomplished, no issues with application, all went fantastic. Except.

It should be noted that this vehicle has been covered 98% of the time since the last time I corrected the paint last year. Back then, it got the full monty, wash, Iron-X, Clay. and basically a 1-step with WGTSR before it was treated to WGDGPS 3.0. It has been treated to another 1/2 dozen LSP applications since.

Today I washed, clayed, started first with Pinnacle Blue Clay, wasn't getting it, then switched to Clay Magic Medium Grade. Was better, but still no cigar.

I did a 2-step on the hood with the WG Twins, then the rest of the main body panels was a 1-step with WG Finishing Glaze. Paint looked fantastic, even better than last time. PC7424XP, with 5.5" White, and Blue Pads used in that order. I took my time, all panels got 6 section passes, slow arm speed, etc etc.

A wipe down with CP Eraser, then the application of CP UK, and finished with CP Reload. Truck looks really superb,and I mean from an eyeball an inch away perspective under bright Halogens, application of the UK-Reload was a breeze.

By bare hand, the paint feels as smooth as glass, but with the plastic baggie, I still can feel some ever so slight bumpiness, not bad mind you, but I think I did better last year. Can't understand why, or where such is coming from, considering a Covercraft Cover being in use?


How critical is such? Do you folks always attain, or try to attain such absolute smoothness, and never cease until every little square inch wil pass a baggie test?

Am I maybe using the wrong decon tools-products, and perhaps next time switch to the decon sponges or towels, that the clay just isn't getting it?

Any advice-opinions are appreciated.
Thanks, Mark

[MarkD51]

30231

30232

Again, I'd like adding, and stressing that the paint finish looks absolutely killer, I'd almost go so far to say that the paint didn't look this good 17 years ago, on the day I took delivery of this vehicle, in Oct '96.

Am I being too anal so seek such flawless smooth perfection?

[asalesagent912]

I can tell you that i have a corvette in my garage that never really see rain.
i keep it waxed and only take it out on nice days. I tried the baggie test and couldn't believe that i felt little grit. so i tried it on cars that i just clayed and polished and could still feel the grit. I wouldn't get bent out of shape over the baggie test.

[HD.Detailing]

i think you will be fine

could be defect under the clear, I'm cautious showing customers the baggie test for this reason.

[MarkD51]

Hello again,
My good friend Dave (DaveT435) just earlier PM'd me, seeing my post, and questions, and asked me since he knows I do not have a Garage, "Is it possible that CQuartzUK is trapping-sealing Dust Particles?"

Dave goes on further to say "He's no CQuartz Pro" to know, and of course neither am I.

I applied the CQ UK with the CP Foam Applicator, MF Suede, and after each panel was coated, wiped immediately after with a CP Boa MF Towel.
Application was so easy, the UK upon application went so smooth, applied to the paint perfectly, so well in fact, that the paint almost didn't even look like it needed a follow-up with the MF Towel afterward.

Cannot stress enough how easy both the UK, and Reload was to apply. The 2013 version of Reload I have was as well super easy, took no more care than liberally applying a Detailer Spray, it worked that easy, absolutely not a streak, cloud, haze, nothing. As I walked around the vehicle, I also did all Glass with Reload, and all was crystal clear right now, immaculate. I am surprised to previously read people having streaking issues with Reload.

Now I'm no Lab Chemist formulating such coatings to know whether in such short time they have the ability to somehow bond dusts, but when I did the Baggie Test, these bumps feel "rounded", like little goose bumps, or as I was thinking they were, "Sap", but now I'm not so sure, that it's been suggested that they may be paint flaws in the base coat, or clear coat?

As I said, with bare hand absolutely smooth as silk, the paint feels like hard coated glass. The "fingernail test" leaves no telltale sign of evidence with this coating, rock hard! As for the CQuartz-Reload, I am wowed!

[FUNX650]

•You say that:
-both clays weren't getting it.
-a two step polishing process was performed.
-a panel-wipe process was also performed.

•Question:
-Was the (CC) paint "Baggie Tested", immediately prior to,
the Coating/Sealant-"topper" application, or not?
-This could have a bearing on what you're currently "Baggie-feeling"... :dunno: ...Or else:

•To me:
-Sounds like you're now trying to: "Baggie Test" the CQUK/Reload application, while it's undergoing its total-curing process.


Bob

[MarkD51]

•You say that:
-both clays weren't getting it.
-a two step polishing process was performed.
-a panel-wipe process was also performed.

•Question:
-Was the (CC) paint "Baggie Tested", immediately prior to,
the Coating/Sealant-"topper" application, or not?
-This could have a bearing on what you're currently "Baggie-feeling"... :dunno: ...Or else:

•To me:
-Sounds like you're now trying to: "Baggie Test" the CQUK/Reload application, while it's undergoing its total-curing process.


Bob

To tell the truth, no, I did not perform the baggie test in between the Polishing-Eraser wipedown step, and the Coating Application. Maybe I erred in this regard?

This is what is strange, one would think that full claying, and then following with polishes with slow 6 section passes per section would alleviate any such "sap, or other contaminants, but again, I just am not sure?

Of course after UK-Reload, I am aware that total curing has not occurred till many hours, and even some days after, but the paint is of course dry to the touch.

Would a baggie test be detecting feeling such "bumps" 5-10 minutes after the final wipedown since I am outside, and not in some NASA Clean Room?

[MarkD51]

Hindsight always has 20/20 vision, doesn't it?

I have fresh bottles of both Pinnacle GL, and DP Paint Cleansers. Perhaps these should've been used after the Polishing process, and prior to the Eraser wipedown?

The problems I faced today, is like pretty much any other day here in New Mexico, and having no Garage. Dusts, Winds, and the Weather Gods will seem to screw you every time you wish to do something like this. This truly is one hellish nightmare place as for weather conditions, and trying to do such work, probably the very worst in the entire USA. Just watch any old Clint Eastwood Spaghetti Western, that's what it looks like here, plus a Monsoon Season this year that just doesn't want to seem to end. (El Nino year?)

I started at 7am, finished at 2:30pm, and did not work on the Roof, or lower Rocker Panels. Clouds built at about 8am, and got worse all day, in fact around noon, it began sprinkling, but for just a minute, then stopped. The vehicle, being under the carport did not get a drop on it.

Had I a darn Garage, I wouldn't be dealing with such "under the gun" pressures, and fighting time and the elements, I could then take numerous days to do prepping at my leisure, instead of a mere few hour's time, with one eye to the skies, and one hand always making the sign of the cross here to do such work. Very hard maintaining anything here.

A new Vette would probably place me in a rubber room!

[cfiiman]

I have always been able to feel little things with the baggie on my car, and it is 2 step polished and flawless. With my bare hand, same as you, smooth as glass, baggie test I feel a bump here and there, glad to know I'm not the only one, and my care is a garage queen for the most part.

[MarkD51]

30240

I reckon there will be one way to prove, or disprove some theories of such questions of wonderment on my own vehicle, since I have yet to CQ UK the Roof.

The Roof alone is a one day job on a ladder, a back-breaking job, and getting in between the runner strips, front to back, and 2 side to side is a PITA.

Last time, I switched to 3.5" LC Backing Plate, and 4" Pads, and that helped some.

I usually always do a vehicle "Top to Bottom", and this time I didn't because I felt an urgency because of abrasion of dusts, and the cover seeming to be having a greater effect on those panels. In a week, when I recover from today's little escapade, I'll undertake doing the Roof, and lower Rocker Panels.

Coating 4 brand new 22" Wheels in and out 7 weeks back, and all Side Panels, and Hood today, I have used slightly more than 1/2 of a 50ml bottle of CQ UK.

Above is another shot of today's work as I finished for the day.

[MarkD51]

Some other observations.

When I started polishing the hood, out came Menz SF4500 and brand new 5.5" Blue Flat LC Pads. No dice, this combo wasn't removing some very slight sleeks-scratches, so decided to try WG TSR with brand new White Flat LC 5.5" Pads. (Could've tried WG Uber)

I used 2 White Pads on the Hood alone, divided in 1/2. I pretty much did the hood twice, and it was looking better, then used the Blue, and WG Finishing Glaze to complete the Hood, looked beautiful.

The observation is, when through with the white pads, they both looked like I just took them out of the bag, no dirts at all. My truck was looking sweet beforehand, not a daily driver, and covered when in storage.

But sap won't show up as dirt, and dirty a pad, will it?

Two 60' Mediterainian/Italian Cyprus Trees 70' away from where my SUV is parked. But how does Sap penetrate through a Covercraft NOAH Cover?

I think I'll be picking up a couple coarse Clay Magic Bars, and try them on the roof?
Mark

[Mike Phillips]

For what it's worth....

After claying sometimes there's still bumps or contaminants on the paint that I can feel with the baggie test. If I'm under a time constraint I'll usually push forward to the next step and the paint will come out looking fine and usually excellent.


IF you look at a lot of the show car work I post in this forum group,


Pictures from Autogeek's Car of the Week (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-autogeek-s-car-week/)

You'll see for many of these cars we're using Nanoskin products with an emphasis on using the Nanoskin Autoscrub pads by machine.

Not sure why it is but when we use these Nanoskin Autoscrub pads by machine and then do the baggie test... it feel flat and smooth like a chalk board or a new piece of glass.


Interesting tidbit....


Last year I demonstrated the "Baggie Test" in two different episodes of "My Classic Car" with Dennis Gage.

While all of us here in the cyber detailing world all know about the baggie test the general population doesn't.

That's changed.


I can't count how many people I've either met in person or communicated with in some fashion that says something like,

"I saw you doing the Baggie Test with Dennis Gage so I went out to my garage and tested my own car"


And then usually they go on to say they were surprised at how rough their paint felt when they used the sandwich baggie to test the paint.


We just submitted our forms for another 12 segments on "My Classic Car" and in at least two segments I'll be showing the baggie test again as a part of sharing this technique to the TV demographic world on how to inspect their car's paint.


:)

[MarkD51]

Mike, Thank you for your reply, and input, and as well a big thanks to everyone else who responded here.

I think I have some more answers, and have drawn some conclusions.

I checked all glass, and yep, the glass feels just like the paint. I know for a fact all glass was flawless 2 months ago because I did Clay all Glass with Pinnacle Blue Clay, cleaned with Pinnacle Glassworks Cleaner-Spot Remover, then applied WGLS on all Glass.

The unknown is "how has this occurred with the vehicle continually covered with a NOAH Covercraft Car Cover?"

I tried to examine the paint under bright LED Light, and a Magnifying Glass, trying to identify what the culprit looks like, but cannot see anything. And again, my paint looks so durn good, and feels as smooth as silk, better than a new 2015 Vehicle in some dealer's showroom, but with the baggie test, it is not at all good.

And I'm thinking back to a good year or so ago, when I finally accumulated every seemingly needed AG-Autopia goodie to do this vehicle, and I can now recall having every square inch of paint smooth as glass "with the baggie test".

There is one variable "monkey wrench" which may again be self induced. This is a possibility, read on.

The Aerospace Formula 303 Fabric Protectant I sprayed on the outside of the cover about 7 weeks ago? I had just washed the cover by hand in a makeshift 55g plastic drum prior to treating, rinsed it by hand 4 times, hung and air dried, then applied the 303 Fabric Protectant to the Cover while it was on the Truck.

I can see no way how any sort of Tree Saps could penetrate through a triple ply cover and get to the vehicle.

This failure of the Baggie Test wouldn't have bothered me much had I applied either a wax, or sealant, but applying CQuartz UK over such really has me kicking myself, that IMO this is the worst detailing mistake I have made in a long long time. My fault, fought the weather Gods here, and I lost again. Damn this goofy state, and its quirky weather that you cannot trust.

I'm usually one never to rush, never care about hours to do any detailing job, but this time I feel I really screwed up. I blame myself yes, but I also blame the conditions I am forced to work under, under a measly carport, which was the reason I bought the Covercraft Cover.

I'm believing the Cover has solved some problems, but has created others. Reason I wanted this hard coating, was more resistance to paint marring that was being caused by the cover in high winds.

This NOAH Cover is coming upon its 2nd birthday this Oct, and is already falling apart, tearing at many stress points and the hem. Covercraft sent me free material, and I bought a sewing machine to initiate repairs. In retrospect perhaps I should've sent it back for replacement-credit, it will never make the 4 year warrantee.

Boy, how I wish a had a garage! Working like this is ridiculous,

[MarkD51]

Could be worse I reckon. While out and about earlier, trying to find Clay Magic Bars in this one horse town (no luck) ran into a work acquaintance who just got his newish Camaro SS's Car Door shot with a BB Gun. A nice BB Dent, and a dime sized chip of paint gone.

Believe it or not though, some turd here did the same to me with the Tahoe about 7 years ago, as I was driving down the street a block from my house. Hit the edge of the rear driver's side B Pillar, so the dent was not big, just a paint chip basically. Had I caught the fool I would've discharged that BB Gun up his butt.

Two other good reasons for a garage, lots of turd vandals and thieves here. His Camaro was shot in his driveway overnight.

[MarkD51]

I'm trying to be a "thinker", and thought some more this evening after my last comments, and the blaming of Aerospace 303 Fabric Protectant.

I'm no expert on paint contamination, but what I'm feeling on the paint via baggie test cannot be some chemical. A chemical bleed through on a cover, or poured over the paint wouldn't be leaving these little goose-bumps on the paint.

That this is fallout that is falling onto the paint, no matter how short a time, it is happening evidently from the moment I pull the cover off here.

It is just like any other "sandy" feel you'll experience on any other paint finish, no different. I conclude it HAS to be Sap. The culprit must be the Italian Cyprus Trees next door. They're like 50'-60' tall Ferns-Evergreens, and they're probably spitting sap akin to a Pine Tree like a 4th of July Sparkler Cone around the clock 24/7.

Two weeks ago, I coated my Kia, did a full clay, WG Uber Buff, and Pinnacle GL Diamond Coating. Three days ago I felt this paint with a Baggie, and it was like sandpaper.

I think I need to "feed" about 5g of vegetation killer on these trees, and kill them! They're 1/2 dead anyway, might as well finish the job, and save myself these headaches.

I've come to believe I'm using the wrong products to combat this situation, going through expensive clays which are proving ineffective. I might need something like CP Trix, or some other cleanser-tar product?

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.608035187489440128&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

Here's an image of those trees that's probably the cause.