How Much Does Wax "Really" Do For Perfect Paint?

[cfiiman]

Is it more "wishful thinking" that it is making a major difference in appearance or is it really a "major" factor in paint that is near perfect from polishing, just curious on people's thoughts, I've been researching a ton and like hearing people's different opinions. Personally I don't see that much difference in "gloss/depth" whatever between pefectly polished paint with nothing on it, or lower end waxes, to higher end products. I'm going to purchase Pinnacle b/c I've got to try it, but isn't the "pop" really in the polishing before hand?

[refreshauto]

the cost of the wax is not what makes the difference, its the steps taken before applying the wax that does it. Mike always says that you get your shine from smooth paint. you achieve this by washing and claying your paint. that is where the real shine and luster come from. wax brings out that warm/depth to the paint.

[Guessless]

Wax more than anything is a protection against elements and UV light, but yes it affects the looks of a car to a great degree too.
Move from one wax to another and you'll see their differences. when folks say the prep work is more important than LSP it's because if under the wax there are blemishes etc. then the car won't shine in brilliance and you'll notice the blemishes more than the brilliance. So a great prepwork first then topped up with a great wax or sealant of your choice, and you'll notice the difference.

Also some say all waxes are the same, I disagree. Eeach wax due to it's content will have a somewhat different look. It's the "somewhat" that everybody finds subjective and whether it's minimal or otherwise that has become the point of discussions and argument, but you wouldn't know unless you try it for yourself. :)

[kevin_1981]

I personally like to do 50/50s with taped off areas to see what i like best for my cars. I usually do notice after applying the LSP... but im sure many people would not notice the difference (or care about it)

[swanicyouth]

The Junkman style "all wax is the same" crowd always seems to think the "conflict" lies in some believing wax will make your bad paint look great. If you put any wax on crappy paint - you just have waxed crappy paint. I don't think anyone who has been on a detailing forum > 5 minutes believes wax is the solution for bad paint. I don't really think anyone believes a certain wax will make bad paint look good - no more than makeup will make an ugly chick look good.

If the paint is perfect - you can see differences in waxes. There are also durability differences, application differences, and different hydrophobic properties.

I think the notion of "all wax is the same" was conjured up by those too cheap (or too broke) to buy nicer waxes. Yes, there are good cheap waxes - there are also good expensive ones as well.

[FUNX650]

I keep in mind that main purpose of Waxes and other LSPs is to act as "sacrificial barriers".

IMHO:
Anything above and beyond that scope, is then left to each individual's physio-psychological/psycho-physiological theories or interpretations.

Bob

[Desertnate]

Over time, I've become a firm believer in the prep making largest difference in the appearance of a vehicle. However, I have also been able to see subtle differences in the types of gloss a LSP creates after being applied...or even different spray wax toppers. In the end, it's all very subtle and comes down to personal preference like Bob stated.

[Mike Phillips]

You ask a good question and a question that comes up from time to time.

I've seen a few detailers in my life that have tried to argue that wax, or "sealant" or a "coating, you know, the LSP or Last Step Product isn't important or isn't a factor because the polishing step is where the actual magic takes place.

I disagree. A lot.


All pro-grade polishes I know of are dedicated products, that means they are dedicated for a single dedicated purpose, that is to in some fashion abrade the paint as part of a process to perfect it.

Most if not all of these products are also body shop safe. This means they contain no ingredients that would cause water to bead up like a wax because this would contaminate a body shop, (fresh paint environment), and this type of contamination can lead to surface adhesion problems. Surface adhesion problems result in what the average guy calls Fish Eyes.

What the above two things mean is that these pro-grade compounds and polishes don't have any ingredients in them that lasts. You see, wax lasts because it's NOT water soluble. Most compounds and polishes are water soluble, they are not meant to last, that is seal the paint with a sacrificial barrier coating of protection that will hold up to repeated washing, wiping and rain. No they are meant to perfect the paint and then be wiped off.

A wax, or a synthetic paint sealant or a paint coating, these are product that are designed to l-a-s-t.

Isn't that what everyone wants? A wax that lasts a long time?


So the results a high quality polish will create can and will look damn good. But these "appearance results" will diminish as the polishing oils wash off, get wiped off or get rained off or even vaporize off the paint.

By sealing the paint with a product designed to last, that is a product that is not water soluble, i.e. a wax, synthetic sealant or paint coating, you lock-in these appearance results.

Not only that... a quality wax, synthetic paint sealant or coating will create a UNIFORM appearance. Polishing doesn't do this, it comes close but under good lighting after wiping all the polish off you can see variable in the finished results. At least I can.

A quality wax, synthetic sealant or paint coating fixes this by creating a uniform appearance and that improves the results created by the polish.


That's 2 things a wax will do, make the results from polishing last over time and create a uniform appearance.


Here's one more thing a quality wax, synthetic sealant or paint coating will do and that's amp up the gloss, clarity, depth and shine. This is a no-brainer because any chemist that's worth his salt creates formulas that provide these types of aesthetic characteristics b-e-c-a-u-s-e that's what the market wants from a wax. By the word market I mean use human beings.


A wax, synthetic paint sealant or paint coating can also create a more slippery surface and a slick or slippery surface can at a minimum help to ward off micro-scratching, (in my humble non-engineer opinion), and the other bonus to this relates back to human beings like their paint to feel slippery.

I also think a quality wax, sealant or coating makes washing faster, easier and safer and this goes for drying too.



There's also some element of protection from UV rays plus just the fact that you have a sacrificial barrier coating on top of the paint means that anything that will attack the paint will first have to make this barrier coating sacrifice itself, that is give itself up before the offending attacker can get to the actual paint.

A quality wax, synthetic sealant or paint coating can also provide some level of masking or hiding by filling in microscopic imperfections to create a more perfect visual appearance and this is why applying a wax, sealant or coating can take the results from polishing to an even higher level.


I think that's 8 benefits I've listed that applying a quality wax, sealant or coating provides if you count how wax makes washing safer and drying safer as two benefits.


The above is all off the top of my head.... I may have missed a few key points and if I think of them later I'll add them to this thread.


Good qustion... I'm glad you asked it...


Now my buddy just picked up his 1932 Ford Deuce Coupe and I took some SUN SHOTS showing just how beautiful his freshly waxed ride looks. Hang tight and I'll show you plus document the paint is swirl free.



:)

[Guessless]

- no more than makeup will make an ugly chick look good.



I disagree with this part,
beleive me I've seen makeup do wonders on the not so pretty chicks, don't beleive it look at one of those posts of Hollywood stars without makeup..... :)

[swanicyouth]

I disagree with this part,
beleive me I've seen makeup do wonders on the not so pretty chicks, don't beleive it look at one of those posts of Hollywood stars without makeup..... :)

We'll, I guess you have a point there...

Britney: makeup vrs no makeup...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/23/meja7azu.jpg

[Mike Phillips]

Britney: makeup vrs no makeup...




Thanks....

Now I have to go wash my eyes....


:D

[builthatch]

I keep in mind that main purpose of Waxes and other LSPs is to act as "sacrificial barriers".

IMHO:
Anything above and beyond that scope, is then left to each individual's physio-psychological/psycho-physiological theories or interpretations.

Bob

i like your thinking in most of your posts because it tends to be logic-based, haha.

you are basically saying there are quantifiable functional features and subjective appearance features, which i totally agree with, of course.

and off topic but i see people referencing this "junkman" guy quite a bit and most of the time, i shake my head. i don't know who this guy is, but he's obviously very opinionated given the citations i see in posts...and that's fine, but in many threads i see people like to take his word and opinions as gospel. or, so it seems. i don't get it. but my life will go on, that's ok.

[silverfox]

I'm assuming you meant LSP...which is critical to keep that paint (you worked so hard to get perfect)...stay that way....otherwise your perfectly polished paint will look like crap in just a few days.

And most importantly, in my opinion, as Mike suggested...it makes maintaining that perfect paint much easier and safer (and boy is that an understatement when it comes to coatings and some super sealants (ex: Sonax Netshield) making their way into the market..!!...coatings and/or super sealants are a must have in my opinion once you see how easy it is to maintain the paint, and not only is it so much easier...but you don't have to wash it as often (saving you time and $$)...you can go weeks in some cases without any worry of easily removing the crud.

So yes..."WAX" (LSP)...does matter big time...and it DOES enhance the polishing step.

[swanicyouth]

i like your thinking in most of your posts because it tends to be logic-based, haha.

you are basically saying there are quantifiable functional features and subjective appearance features, which i totally agree with, of course.

and off topic but i see people referencing this "junkman" guy quite a bit and most of the time, i shake my head. i don't know who this guy is, but he's obviously very opinionated given the citations i see in posts...and that's fine, but in many threads i see people like to take his word and opinions as gospel. or, so it seems. i don't get it. but my life will go on, that's ok.

Junkman is a guy who makes great and interesting detailing videos and how to's on You Tube. He is a great guy and I like his videos - I just disagree with him on this point.

[builthatch]

Junkman is a guy who makes great and interesting detailing videos and how to's on You Tube. He is a great guy and I like his videos - I just disagree with him on this point.

yeah i'll have to check them out because i see some weird references on here about this junkman dude saying this and junkman saying that. the last one was a hand test to dictate quality of MFs haha. the other was about coatings and they are for lazy people...or something....then something about how wax can't change the appearance of a polished finish. i dunno, i'll check him out and see what the heck everyone is saying.