Do these look like sanding scratches?

[hurricane630]

Hey guys, noobie to detailing here! quick recap, Had my 98 Cobra repainted 2 years ago, I've kept it clean and taken care of it. I'm now getting my truck repainted and thought it would be worth while to buy a PC 7424xp. So I got it this week from AG and started testing it out. I've done hours and hours of research, reading and watching videos on technique, do's and don't's, etc. before using the PC on my car though. After doing my first section pass on the hood using Meg. UC with an orange CCS pad and Meg. UP with black CCS pad and I notice these very fine scratches I can only see if the light is hitting it at the right angle. I guess I just hadn't noticed them before, because looking more closely they're in other spots of the car as well so I know it isn't from the PC. My question is 1. Are these sand scratches from the people who painted it? 2. Is it possible to get these out? and with what compound? M105?

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=79686&size=1

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=79687

[wdmaccord]

Looks like RIDS. Possibly someone drug something across the hood? Or possibly poor quality towels when removing the compound and polish? What did you use for removal?

[hurricane630]

Also, sorry it is hard to see the scratches, they are very fine scratches. I can not feel them AT ALL. I bought Hex-logic pads(not because of this, just pads I was recommended) and tried the orange hex pad with UC with no success. Did about 2-3 section passes(went side to side 2 times and up and down 2 times each section pass).

[hurricane630]

Looks like RIDS. Possibly someone drug something across the hood? Or possibly poor quality towels when removing the compound and polish? What did you use for removal?

I used these Arctic White Microfiber Towel, microfiber cloth, detailing towel (http://www.autogeek.net/white-microfiber-towel.html) Arctic white Microfiber from AG

[wdmaccord]

Looks like good towels. I assume you washed before use with no fabric softener?

Did you notice these scratches before you started? What was your wash/decontamination process before you compounded/polished?

[hurricane630]

I did wash them first.

I didn't notice them before but I also think I just wasn't looking close enough. After seeing these scratches I looked at the rest of the car and noticed it in other places as well(that I haven't touched with the PC). I washed the car with the two bucket system with a wash mitt. Then I clayed the section of the hood I was testing on. Used mother's clay kit. Then began with the PC. Also I've only used the pc on a small part of the hood so far(haven't had time to do the whole car, I just wanted to do practice on a small section first before tackling the whole car)

[wdmaccord]

Could be it was repainted with a relatively hard clear coat which would make defect removal more difficult and even more so with a PC. Where are you located...there might be members on here near you that would take a first-hand look at it and would be able to recommend the next step?

[hurricane630]

Greenville, SC. I can get pics of more of the scratches if that'd help. I just don't want to spend hours polishing and waxing only to know all of these scratches are there. Most people wouldn't notice them, but I will!

[allenk4]

Also, sorry it is hard to see the scratches, they are very fine scratches. I can not feel them AT ALL. I bought Hex-logic pads(not because of this, just pads I was recommended) and tried the orange hex pad with UC with no success. Did about 2-3 section passes(went side to side 2 times and up and down 2 times each section pass).

To me these look like scratches that have been partially removed

If it was my car, I would hit the 2x2' section that the RIDS are in for 4 more passes with your PC, UC & Orange pad. Firm pressure. Slow arm movement.

[wdmaccord]

To me these look like scratches that have been partially removed

If it was my car, I would hit the 2x2' section that the RIDS are in for 4 more passes with your PC, UC & Orange pad. Firm pressure. Slow arm movement.

And make sure your backing plate is marked so you can see the pad is still spinning so you know that you aren't putting too much downward pressure that it stops the pad from rotating.

[Mike Phillips]

Sanding marks, or scratches should be in a straight line as anyone sanding by hand should be using a back and forth hand motion.

If sanding marks remain in the paint after compounding, it is the deepest of the scratches as the shallow sanding marks will have buffed out. These deeper sanding marks are called tracers. See the pictures in this article,

Tracers Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Drooping Etchings - Micro-Marring (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/22234-tracers-rids-pigtails-cobweb-swirls-rotary-buffer-swirls-holograms-water-spots-bird-droping-etchings-micro-marring.html)







I didn't notice them before




The sanding marks don't look like they are in uniform straight lines, for this reason I think these are just random scratches inflicted into the paint.

I coined this term years ago,

RIDS

Which stands for Random, Isolated Deeper Scratches and explain everything you ever wanted to know about RIDS in this article.

RIDS - The Definition of RIDS and the story behind the term... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/24045-rids-definition-rids-story-behind-term.html)



Here's the first paragraph from the above article,

These type of scratches come from normal wear & tear and there is no pattern to them. RIDS are like Tracers in that they are deeper scratches that show up after the shallow scratches have first been removed through a machine or hand buffing process, usually with a compound or paint cleaner.

After the shallow swirls and scratches have been removed, any deeper scratches that remain will now show up like a Sore-Thumb to your eyes because there are no longer thousands of lighter, more shallow scratches camouflaging them.


The second sentence explains why you didn't notice them before....


The article also goes on to say that if the car in question is a daily driver, because factory clearcoats are so thing might better off learning to live with them versus trying to remove them.

If you buff too much paint off you'll buff through the clear layer of paint and expose the purdy blue pint. You'll notice this when two things happen,


1. you turn your polisher over and see the color blue on the face of your pad.

2. a dull spot, usually a circle or oval shape, appears where the scratches were. Most people are not sure what this is or what it means at the time. When they find out...


Words cannot describe the heart sinking feeling that will overcome your emotions...


Especially when you price getting the panel repainted.



:)

[hurricane630]

Thank you guys for the responses! I was considering going back over the area again with an orange pad and UC, but I've already gone over it twice(slow section passes with around 10-15lbs of pressure). But as Mike said, I am worried about the clear coat.

Mike, since it was repainted a couple of years ago, would it likely be alright to go over it a few more times with UC? I know you can't say for sure because I can't say with 100% confidence how many coats of clear were put on but I was told 3 coats of clear coat. Do you think these scratches can be removed safely? or am I better off just living with it? I know you said it may be best to just leave it, but you were also referring to a factory clear coat being thin, and this was repainted.

Thanks!

[Mike Phillips]

Mike, since it was repainted a couple of years ago, would it likely be alright to go over it a few more times with UC?

I know you can't say for sure because I can't say with 100% confidence how many coats of clear were put on but I was told 3 coats of clear coat.

Do you think these scratches can be removed safely? or am I better off just living with it? I know you said it may be best to just leave it, but you were also referring to a factory clear coat being thin, and this was repainted.

Thanks!


Generally speaking, a custom paint job or even a re-paint at a body shop will tend to be thicker than the factory clear. How thick? Just depends on the painter.

I was part of a team of guys that wetsanded, cut and buffed a 1950 Ford Woody and we were told the painter sprayed 2 coats of clear. Two HEAVY coats of clear and between 5 of us guys, all with different sanding techniques, not once did we sand or buff through the clear.

So how thick a layer of paint is really comes down to the painter and his style and that's an unknown variable when it comes to a re-paint.


My advice....

If the scratches bug you and you plan on taking care of the finish into the future then I'd go for it.

Make a few more full section passes and chances are you can work the scratches down to the point where they no longer bug you.


:)

[hurricane630]

Mike I really appreciate you helping me out! This is going to be my daily for years to come so I definitely plan on taking care of the paint. I will give it a couple more passes with orange pads and UC and hope I can make some progress with these scratches! The paint looks great to most, but I'm always going to know they're there if I don't fix them, so thank you very very much! I'll post back in a couple of days when I've had time to make some more passes on it.