Should polishing be done in the shade?

[sito]

Should polishing wax with DA be done in the shade?

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[Atticus808]

yes. otherwise it will get very hot and your products will dry out.

IF you have to do it in direct sunlight, work in smaller areas. and mist the panel with quick detailer to cool it down slightly.

[Zelfiris]

Especially for black cars, they attract heat like crazy in direct sunlight.

Polishing in the sun will dry out your polish much quicker and and the section you're working on may burn through the paint from excessive heat.

[AutowerxDetailing]

Can your polish a car under direct sunlight? Yes. Is it recommended? No.

FWIW I've polished several cars in direct sunlight (even black) and if you work in smaller sections, use a little more product than normal, and wipe off residue quickly you can get excellent results. It definitely takes way longer to work this way though. On the flip side there is no better way to inspect your results!

Plus then there are the drive by comments you always have to deal with... "don't your know you're not supposed to wax a car in the sun!?" They say.

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[Eandras]

I do polishing in the sun since I have no shade. I use products that say can be done in sun or shade. It depends on the product and your personel preference

[Quiksilver5882]

Try Optimum Hyper Compound and Hyper Polish. They are friendly in sunlight, to a degree. You should avoid messing with polishes and compounds outside in sunlight if at all possible!

[RedXray]

Definitely in the shade.

I keep the a/c temps in the garage at 76 during the summer months. Did a full correction on the truck the last couple days using M105 and Menz SF-4500. The M105 removed great on every panel except the top of the cab. Just the few degrees difference (warmer) in the garage's ceiling to the floor area made the top a bit problematic with the M105.

[sito]

do you guys work on cars in the garage in the winter?

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Yes, absolutely, 100% in the shade. Polishing in direct sunlight is like mixing water and oil; it doesn't work

[BrandonS]

Can your polish a car under direct sunlight? Yes. Is it recommended? No.

FWIW I've polished several cars in direct sunlight (even black) and if you work in smaller sections, use a little more product than normal, and wipe off residue quickly you can get excellent results. It definitely takes way longer to work this way though. On the flip side there is no better way to inspect your results!

Plus then there are the drive by comments you always have to deal with... "don't your know you're not supposed to wax a car in the sun!?" They say.

Sent from my N9810 using AG Online

What he said, I have done this in the fall or spring and worked small sections but it is more work.

[Mike Phillips]

Tips for working in warm/hot weather or direct sunlight (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tips-techniques-how-articles-interacting-discussion-forums/26961-tips-working-warm-hot-weather-direct-sunlight.html)



http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/FullDesertSun.jpg


First the facts...
Paint care products will always work best on a cool surface in the shade, this is true even for products that state they can be used in full sun. Even if a product can be used in full sun, working on a cool surface in the shade will always be easier and maximize the performance of the product because warm and/or hot temperatures, plus the heat from direct sun rays will always be trying to dry out your product before you can effectively work it over the surface.


Also, there's a HUGE difference between working in full sun in the morning in a fall or winter month and working in full sun when working in August, in Arizona at noon on a black car. The temperature of black paint in August, in Arizona at noon can easily exceed 180 degrees and any liquid product applied to the paint will tend to want to dry very quickly even if on the label it says, "can be used in the sun" .


A few tips...
For those times when you don't have shade and it's warm or hot outside and you don't have a cool surface to work on, here are a few tips...


Borrow some shade...
First, look around and see if you can borrow some shade, by this I mean the shade created by a large building? Maybe under a large tree?

Working under a tree can present a potential problem for debris falling out of the tree and on to your working surface but that's the trade-off for getting out of direct sun, so if you do work under a tree be sure to clean any panels immediately before working on them.


Portable Canopy...
If it's in your budget, invest in a quality EZ-Up type Canopy to create a shaded, protected work area.


Shrink your work area down to a smaller size...
Anytime a product becomes difficult to work with, one tip you can try is to shrink down the size of your work area. This means you spread the product out over a smaller area and only work this smaller area.

Be careful not to allow yourself to do what I call Buffer Creep. This is where you creep outward from your original small section and end up buffing out a larger section. Avoid Buffer Creep. Especially if your product appears to be drying up and becoming dusty.


Why a smaller area?
Because when you're working only a small are you're continually engaging the working film of product over the area more quickly as you move the polisher and by doing this there's less time for the product to dry and dust.




Clean your pads often or switch to a clean dry pad...
It's vitally important to work clean and this means cleaning your pad often and often can mean cleaning your pad after each Section Pass no matter which type of polisher you're using.



The definition of a pass
There are two definitions of the word pass as it relates to machine polishing with any type of machine.


Single Pass
A single pass is just that. It's when you move the polisher from one side of the section you're buffing to the other side of the section you're buffing. That's a single pass.


Section Pass
A section pass is when you move the polisher back and forth, or front to back with enough single overlapping passes to cover the entire section one time. That's a section pass.

YouTube Video on How To do a Section Pass (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q70g83mnTn4)

In most cases if you're removing any substantial below surface defects you're going to make 6-8 section passes to the section you’re working before you either feel comfortable you've removed the defects or you're at the end of the buffing cycle for the product you're using.






The warmer or hotter the temperatures and the worse the working conditions, then the more often you want to clean your pads.


Rotary Buffers
When cutting with a wool pad on a rotary buffer it really helps to have a pad washer, but if you don't have one you can get by with a Spur. When using foam pads you can use a pad washer or the "Cleaning your pad on the fly" technique" using a clean, terry cloth towel.


How to clean your foam pad on the fly (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/20135-how-clean-your-foam-pad-fly.html)


DA Polishers - Porter Cable - Meguiar's - Griot's
When cutting with a DA Polisher you can get by with "Cleaning your pad on the fly"
using a terry cloth towel, but a pad washer will clean a foam cutting pad better. Of course you can always switch to a new pad or a clean dry, used pad. The "Cleaning the pad on the fly technique" does not work with the Flex 3401 or the Cyclo Polisher. For these two types of polishers you'll need to use a pad washer, wash your pads by hand, or substitute clean new pads, or clean, dry used pads.


Keep in mind that anytime you us ANY product that abrades the paint, you will have two substances building up on the face of your pad,


Spent residue
Removed paint
Both of these need to be removed as they build up before adding new product and continuing with the buffing process.

Back when cars were painted with single stage paints, you could easily see the removed paint build up on the face of the pad because it was pigmented or colored. This would be a strong visual indicator to help remind you to clean your pads often.

With modern clear coats, you're still removing paint when you're abrading or doing correction work but because the clear layer is clear, it just doesn't show up as dramatically as single stage paint. The important point is to understand that clear paint is building up on the face of your pad and to clean our pad often.

You also want to wipe off any residue from the area worked before adding fresh product if you're going to work the area again.



Use an "ample" amount of product
When I say use an ample amount of product this means don’t use too much product and don’t use to little product.

From The Free Dictionary.com

am·ple
adjective

1. Of large or great size, amount, extent, or capacity: an ample living room.

2.
a. Large in degree, kind, or quantity: an ample reward.
b. More than enough: ample evidence.

3. Fully sufficient to meet a need or purpose: had ample food for the party.


Out of the above definitions, I'm using the 3rd definition.

Using too much product
If you use too much you can hyper-lubricate the surface and this will make it more difficult for the abrasives to abrade the surface as they’ll tend to want to glide or slip over the surface instead of bite into the surface.

Using too little product
If you use too little product there won’t be enough lubrication to enable the buffing pad to rotate and thus engage the abrasives against the surface so they can bite into and remove small particles of paint.
You want an AMPLE amount of product when first starting out because you pad is dry and some of the product is going to seep into the pad leaving less on the surface to LUBRICATE and ABRADE the paint.

Another option is to use a Pad Conditioner to lubricate and condition the surface of a dry pad, this will improve the buffing cycle and provide protection to the paint surface to help prevent micro-marring.

XMT Polishing Pad Conditioner (http://www.autogeek.net/xmt--pad-conditioner.html)



Cut down on the amount of product AFTER pad is broken-in...
After your pad is broken in with product, clean your pad after each section pass and when you apply fresh product you can cut down on the amount of product you actually apply to the face of your pad.


The key it to have enough product on the surface as you're working a section to have a film of product that you can see on the surface behind the polisher as you move the polisher in a direction.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/811/AmpleProduct10.jpg




Start before the sun comes up...
Do your machine compounding and polishing early in the morning when it's the coolest. Start setting up while it's still early in the morning while it's cool, then as soon as there's enough light to safely work, begin working the horizontal panels first. The reason for this is these will tend to get the hottest later in the day as the sun is over head making any correction or polishing work more difficult.

When it comes to the vertical panels, you can usually move the car in such a way that the side you're working on is shaded to some degree by placing the sun on the opposite side, thus the surface temperature of the panel will be cooler.


Use smaller, thinner pads
The 5.5" pads are thinner than the 6.5" pads and should rotate easily with a PC 7424XP, Griot's Garage and Meguiar's DA Polishers under on the 5.0 to 6.0 Speed setting. Together with working a smaller size section and ample product this will make working on a warm or hot surface easier.



Why to only work small sections at at time
The larger the area you work the more the product is going to dry up on you because while you're working one portion of the area, the portions not being worked will tend to start drying via evaporation. By shrinking your work area down, shrinking your pad size down and using ample product you'll better be able to maintain a wet buffing cycle over a smaller area.

Note: The larger the area you work the less abrading action each square inch of paint will get in relation to the time spent working the total area.


Exception to the rule...
While most instructions state to work a 2' x 2' area, when removing swirls in a warm or hot environment, it's usually more effective to work a smaller area.

I tend to stick around the 20" squarish area and even smaller if the paint is harder, the swirls are deeper and it's extremely hot and windy as the heat and the wind together will both act to force your product to dry more quickly.


Hope this helps....


:)

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I find polishing in direct sunlight when the paint is hot to the touch, that marring is increased heavily. No thanks. If I had to polish a car is direct sunlight when the paint is NOT, I wouldn't do the job. JMO.

[Dr_Pain]

I am with Mark on that!!

Here is a little experiment you can do to check your particulars (heat and humidity vs. work time). Get an IR temp gauge, polish a section in the shade till the product brakedown (noting the amount of time it took you, and how many passes you made), check the panel temp. The friction from the pad correcting will increase the panel heat, and you will see the end temp (or basically the manufacturer expected working temp, since that is how they test their product). Now take your same car in the sun, let it sit a little (mimicking prepping to correct), and measure the panel temp. I would not be surprised that without any pad friction that your panel temp would be close to "optimal", so any applied friction will raise the heat coefficient to beyond safe zone!

As it was explained before, if you evaporate the liquid portion of your compound you will concentrate the abrasive which in all likelihood lead to poor correction and marring.... even working in smaller sections, especially on darker vehicles.

[FUNX650]

Yes...If at possible!

•Panel temperature:
-You'll know right away if it's within a polishing range if you check the panel with the back of your hand (I use my "weak-side" hand).

•The Detailer's temperature:
-I just hate getting drops of perspiration on a freshly polished panel.
-"Shaded" detailing arenas are my friend.

Bob

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I am with Mark on that!!

Here is a little experiment you can do to check your particulars (heat and humidity vs. work time). Get an IR temp gauge, polish a section in the shade till the product brakedown (noting the amount of time it took you, and how many passes you made), check the panel temp. The friction from the pad correcting will increase the panel heat, and you will see the end temp (or basically the manufacturer expected working temp, since that is how they test their product). Now take your same car in the sun, let it sit a little (mimicking prepping to correct), and measure the panel temp. I would not be surprised that without any pad friction that your panel temp would be close to "optimal", so any applied friction will raise the heat coefficient to beyond safe zone!

As it was explained before, if you evaporate the liquid portion of your compound you will concentrate the abrasive which in all likelihood lead to poor correction and marring.... even working in smaller sections, especially on darker vehicles.
:props: :props: :props: