M100, M101 or Ultimate Compound on Rotary?

[nubaseal]

I work with a rotary and foam pads, stay away from wool being a weekend warrior. I have tried M105 a few times, didn't like it one bit and it could be that it is designed to be used with wool pads. I made the switch to DAT compounds from Scholl and Menzerna and they have been working well for me. I want to try the Meguiar's compounds again and more importantly cut my cost as the German compounds are rather expensive. Should I try Ultimate compound or M101 or M100 on the rotary?

Also, does Meguiar's have an entire range of polishes and compounds like Scholl/Menzerna with varying cutting abilities? M105 / M205 combo seems too harsh when at times all I need is grit 2500 cutting compound at at times only P3000. Scholl does this well starting with S0,S2,S3,S17,S20,S30 and finally S40.

[Mike Phillips]

I want to try the Meguiar's compounds again and more importantly cut my cost as the German compounds are rather expensive.

Should I try Ultimate compound or M101 or M100 on the rotary?



For use with foam pads on a rotary buffer go with the M101

When you use a wool pad with a rotary buffer go with M100





Also, does Meguiar's have an entire range of polishes and compounds like Scholl/Menzerna with varying cutting abilities?

M105 / M205 combo seems too harsh when at times all I need is grit 2500 cutting compound at at times only P3000.




The M205 is a fine cut compound, it's really designed to clean up any haze or shallow swirls after using M100, M101 or M105 in body shop work environments.

There's M82, M83 and M09 which are all DAT polishes you could give these a try....



:)

[nubaseal]

Thanks Mike. I will look those up.
Is there anything between M105/M101 and M205 or these can be made to cut at different levels? Sorry I am coming straight from the DAT bus and eager to get on the SMAT bus :)

[Tector]

I like to use M85 to buff out my sanding marks on a new paint job. It's a DAT and once you get the hang of it you can end up with a finish that's swirl free and hardly needs anything finer as a follow up. I've used both wool and foam pads with great results using either. M83 is a bit finer and M82 is finer than M205. I like M82 to get that little bit of extra gloss after using M85. I haven't been very successful using any of these with a DA.

[Mike Phillips]

Is there anything between M105/M101 and M205



Get some Wolfgang Uber Compound, you can even get a 8 ounce bottle to try. It cuts fast and finishes like a polish. Completely different abrasive technology than Meguiar's abrasive technology.

Or get Optimum Compound. Cuts fast, probably not as fast as all of the above but does cut fast, easy to work with and finishes like a polish.

Sonax Fine Abrasive Paste - I've always thought this was a wacky name but I don't think it's as aggressive as M100, M101 or M105 or Uber Compound but it does cut well and finish like a polish.





or these can be made to cut at different levels?



After spending 3 years of my life calling on body shops, dealerships and detail shops trying to train the guys in these industries I met a LOT of guys that like to play chemist and "mix" their own products.

Whatever it was they were trying to create already existed they just didn't know about it.

So I'm not a big fan mixing products but you can if you want.





Sorry I am coming straight from the DAT bus and eager to get on the SMAT bus :)




No worries... don't be in too much of a hurry as all types have their good points and their downsides. In my experience Ive found the SMAT compounds to cut the fastest and finish nice and DAT Polishes to finish out the nicest on the widest spectrums of paint systems with foam pads.

It's good to have a few brands of compounds and polishes in your arsenal because if one brand isn't working to your expectations you can always try a different brand.

If you don't have any selection you end up here asking for recommendations. Nothing wrong with that either as I'll post the above paragraph.


:D

[Tector]

Get some Wolfgang Uber Compound, you can even get a 8 ounce bottle to try. It cuts fast and finishes like a polish. Completely different abrasive technology than Meguiar's abrasive technology.
The Uber compound is made by Menzerna and is a DAT, correct? How is that technology different form Meguiar's DAT polishes?

[nubaseal]

Thanks Mike. I ordered some M205 to try. Will use it and then decide about the other Meg's polishes. I already finished a bottle of Optimum Hyper Compound, loved working with it and ordered some Polish II from them and was disappointed. I will give their Hyper polish a try and the Wolfgang Uber Compound as well. You are correct that I should try the ones that I haven't already.

[Mike Phillips]

The Uber compound is made by Menzerna and is a DAT, correct? How is that technology different form Meguiar's DAT polishes?


There's more than one type of diminishing abrasive in the world and not only does it come in different forms but it can be modified to the manufactures specification.

I was once in a chemists office and he sketched out some hand drawings showing me various types of abrasive particles, all unique and with different shapes. What's more is he told me different types of abrasives have different rates of break-down, different hardnesses and even different levels of sharpness.

I used to have the paper with the sketches and notes... probably in a box somewhere...


Abrasive technology is different, it's certainly not all the same. That's why I tell guys all the time to always use the best abrasive technology they can and not to skimp on compounds and polishes.

Clearcoats are thin... and easily scratched, in my opinion it takes a great chemist to create great compounds and polishes...

Clearcoats are Scratch-Sensitive (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/74234-clearcoats-scratch-sensitive.html)


:xyxthumbs:

[Tector]

Thank you. That makes sense.

[Stay Fresh]

I think what people fail to realize is MSDS sheets should always be formulated towards the buffing pads they intend to sell!

I hear about it every day! I used X product with Y pad and i am not seeing results.

There is a reason your not seeing results! The market is flooded with a million lines now. Everyone has there own niche, own pad, compound, polish....etc

Formulating your MSDS sheets specifically around the buffing pad yields the best results. This takes a ton of trial and error but once you find those thresh holds, you have a product!

Just know you are playing the biggest guessing game when you mix products and pads. Every car line should be doing Q&C with there formulas and buffing pads.

Josh

[nubaseal]

Are you suggesting that Meg's polishes should be used with Meg's pads and Scholl polishes with Scholl pads and so forth?

[trekkeruss]

I think what people fail to realize is MSDS sheets should always be formulated towards the buffing pads they intend to sell!


Huh? :confused:

[Mike Phillips]

I think what people fail to realize is MSDS sheets should always be formulated towards the buffing pads they intend to sell!

Josh


Mmmm....

It's not the purpose of a MSDS to to explain what buffing pad is best used for any specific chemical.

Some companies do recommend either a specific pad and product combination or a range of pads and products that can be used with one another, examples would be the pad/product recommendations by Meguiar's for their Microfiber DA Correction System and Rupes in the way they color match the caps of their compounds and polishes to the color of their foam pads.

While it's a good idea to follow a manufacturer's direction... from what I've seen in the detailing world, people like to do their own thing. Of course that means they might not get the results they are looking for but that's where forums like this come in handy.

Besides that, the option to use different pads with the same chemical gives a person the ability to either increase or decrease the aggressiveness or NON-aggressiveness of their approach to doing correction or polishing work.

I've seen light cutting polishes used with aggressive pads produce phenomenal results and I've seen heavy cutting compounds used with polishing pads produce phenomenal results.

The one factor that is always an unknown is the paint itself as paint systems change and a car could also be repainted.

That's the beauty of learning the art of doing a test spot or a series of test spots to dial in the best pad and product combo for the paint on the car you're currently working on.


:xyxthumbs:

[Stay Fresh]

Mmmm....

It's not the purpose of a MSDS to to explain what buffing pad is best used for any specific chemical.

Some companies do recommend either a specific pad and product combination or a range of pads and products that can be used with one another, examples would be the pad/product recommendations by Meguiar's for their Microfiber DA Correction System and Rupes in the way they color match the caps of their compounds and polishes to the color of their foam pads.

While it's a good idea to follow a manufacturer's direction... from what I've seen in the detailing world, people like to do their own thing. Of course that means they might not get the results they are looking for but that's where forums like this come in handy.

Besides that, the option to use different pads with the same chemical gives a person the ability to either increase or decrease the aggressiveness or NON-aggressiveness of their approach to doing correction or polishing work.

I've seen light cutting polishes used with aggressive pads produce phenomenal results and I've seen heavy cutting compounds used with polishing pads produce phenomenal results.

The one factor that is always an unknown is the paint itself as paint systems change and a car could also be repainted.

That's the beauty of learning the art of doing a test spot or a series of test spots to dial in the best pad and product combo for the paint on the car you're currently working on.


:xyxthumbs:

Mike,

While I some what agree with you. The purpose of the MSDS sheet is to provide the same results when using the buffing pads provided by the company.

Paint correction I believe should be done in a step process. By the naked eye you can not tell the grit sand scratch that needs to be removed. Jumping from this pad to that pad and this polish to that compound doesn't make much sense from different companies.

Of course doing a test spot must always be done, but when you purchase X pad and Y product from two different companies, what does the customer do then when he doesn't see results? purchase different pads and products again?

What i'm truly getting at is. All car car companies should be formulating there products around the buffing pad. Paint does play a role but I could talk for days about that....haha

For example: "Finishing polish + Green Pad"

When your testing the formula and you're not seeing mirror results, you go back to the drawing board. You remove this chemical or add more of another chemical...etc. Again, i'm only speaking from a stand point of using X product and X pad from the same company.

Yes detailers tend to do there own thing but I can tell you this. I'd rather a customer get the right results, rather then searching for answers as to why there not seeing results.

Rupes and Meguiars are great examples of using there pads and polishes in conjunction with each other :)


:dblthumb2:

[Mike Phillips]

Also Mike, We received emails about promoting or selling on Autogeek. We are not doing this. We received emails about people asking about our products so we signed up to answer there questions.




Might want to reply to whoever sent you the e-mail, (wasn't me) for more information or clarification on answering questions about products you sell but are not sold on the AG store. Be sure to read the forum rules and then be sure to abide by them. I'm not saying your not just pointing out the basics of good forum etiquette.

As for the MSD Sheets telling people what pad to use with what chemical, I think that's the role of an "Application Bulletin" or directions from the manufacturer. I'm not an expert on MSDS but I think their primary purpose is to declare any hazardous materials for safety and shipping reasons. I don't think they are for explaining to people how to buff out a car.

On that note, I'll stick to what I already wrote in my previous post about pads and products as I don't think I can improve upon what I already wrote.


:)