Can you touch up clear coat or not?

[CedarZ4]

I'm getting mixed information based on what I've read about clear coat.

Many threads with knowledgeable folks on AGO, even Mike himself, have said that adding clear coat to existing clear coat without being able to tell is almost impossible (e.g. burned through OEM clear coat and want to add clear coat , or just simply want more clear coat on top of OEM clear coat)

However, there have also been many threads where people have used touch-up paint (1 step, or 2 step with clear coat applied after), sanding, and polishing to fix a scratch or a keyed car with almost no sign of previous damage. In this case, the clear coat was successfully blended together through sanding and polishing to the OEM clear coat, leading me to believe that you in fact CAN touch up clear coat.

Is the difference here the size of the damage so it is more difficult to tell? I'm working on a project where I am using touch up paint for a 1/2 inch diameter damaged area that was filled with putty. I planned on leveling the putty/epoxy, hitting it with touch up paint, sand, then apply clear coat and sand/polish that. Will this work? Thinking that I was going to re-spray with clear coat anyway, I think I might have taken off most if not all of the clear coat in a small area surrounding the damaged area.

[Mike Phillips]

Is the difference here the size of the damage so it is more difficult to tell?



Yes that would be part of whether you are successful or not.

You pointed out various scenarios, like burn-through. If the section of paint damaged is large, say a round spot 2" or larger, (where the clear was buffed off exposing the basecoat), you're not going to be able to apply clear touch up paint from a bottle or a can and make it so when you stand back and look at the panel you won't be able to tell where the damage occurred.

If you have a scratch or a rock chip and you have both experience and skill then you can do the touch-up work in a way that when you stand back and look at the panel you cannot easily tell where the damage occurred.


What I've noticed in my life is everyone's expectations are very high, even when they have zero experience in doing touch-up paint work not to mention hand wetsanding and compounding to remove sanding marks. Doing this type of work is easier than ever thanks to new technology but it's still not as easy as it can sound reading about it on a forum.





I'm working on a project where I am using touch up paint for a 1/2 inch diameter damaged area that was filled with putty.

I planned on leveling the putty/epoxy, hitting it with touch up paint, sand, then apply clear coat and sand/polish that.

Will this work?




I'd say when you're done you're not going to be able to stand back and look at the panel and have it look like nothing ever happened.





Thinking that I was going to re-spray with clear coat anyway, I think I might have taken off most if not all of the clear coat in a small area surrounding the damaged area.



A few questions...



How did the damage occur?
Where or which panel did the damage happen to?
Can you post a picture of the panel so we can see it?
What kind of vehicle is this?


:)

[Mike Phillips]

I searched your posting history and I think I found your project....


http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/83128-how-repair-license-plate-bracket-indentations.html


http://s30.postimg.org/ekm3mgk35/20140723_214407.jpg




Just to comment...

My instincts tell me that what you're trying to do is a great idea and your intentions are well meaning. That said, I don't think you're going to be able to fill in the holes and then apply both yellow and clear touch up paint, level and sand everything so when you stand back and look at the front bumper on your car you won't be able to tell anything ever happened.

That's just my hunch, I'm seriously not trying to be a Debbie Downer.

The biggest problem you're going to have is the fact that the factory clear surrounding these holes is thin and because it's thin you can't do much sanding and buffing on the good paint.

So if you can figure out how to get behind these holes and put something there to brace the epoxy putty so it won't vibrate and pop out, and then under fill it in the front to make room for the yellow paint and the clearcoat paint, and then ONLY sand on the touch-up paint, and then carefully compound out your sanding marks without heating up the touch-up paint making it rubbery and causing it to simply "pull out" of the depressed area on top of the epoxy, then I think you can do it.


:)

[Tector]

The problem with adding clear coat is that it can't be blended, and you will always see the edge where the new clear coat ends. PPG and others make a blending agent you can add to your clear that minimizes this edge, but if you look closely enough you will still see it. If you're working on something like a front bumper, which it looks like you are, your best bet is to clear the entire bumper. I know some guys have told me they have mastered the art of blending clear, but I've always been able see where it has been blended. It's like Mike said, what are your expectations? The paint supply store I get my supplies from sells a lot of 1K clear and most people who use it are fine with the results they get. I'm too particular I guess because if I can see the edge I'm not going to be happy. On a forum where people use special lighting just to find those elusive swirls I would guess your expectations are going to be pretty high.

[CedarZ4]

If you have a scratch or a rock chip and you have both experience and skill then you can do the touch-up work in a way that when you stand back and look at the panel you cannot easily tell where the damage occurred.


Thank you for the input, Mike.

I am still a little confused between something like burning through the clear coat, a scratch or rock chip, and my situation.

You are correct, in my project (bumper holes) I was planning on shaving the hole down below flush, then filling it in and sanding that part. However, I would still need to blend in the new clear with the old. Isn't this the case for the other two scenario as well? The new and old clear still have to blend in one way or another. I am just trying to understand what the difference is, and what I can change in my procedures to make it look as best as I can get it.

You are correct, though, Tector. Many people on this forum, myself included, just cringe at the idea of imperfection on a car's paint. However, even if it doesn't come out perfect it is still better than 4 unsightly holes, and it was a fun DIY anyway.

[allenk4]

You will forget all about those "four little holes", if you are unsuccessful blending the clear coat.

Is there any particular reason you don't want to pull the bumper and clear the whole thing?

There are professionals who will do spot paint. The two that I have spoken to insist on clear coating the entire panel. They quoted $180 per door + $50 for materials and disposal fee.


I would try the Bumper Plugs. If you hate them, explore other options.

[CedarZ4]

Around here, a normal collision "garage" to strip and re-clear will probably run $200 or more. A nicer, reputable shop is in the $400-500 range. I just don't think it's worth that kind of money.

I am not too concerned about if it comes out too poorly, because if I just put the plate back on, I will be exactly where I started. I just can't seem to understand what makes my project so different from say, a keyed-car or deep scratch repair with touch up paint and clear coat. I guess this is my main question. It looks like most opinion on here is that my clear coat blending will be mostly unsuccessful, but if I follow the procedures for a scratch repair, wouldn't the result be similar?

I've already applied epoxy and sanded it flush, and ordered touch up paint and clear that will come in on Friday so I will definitely try it out, but just trying to see what is the best way to approach this is, as it appears like my original plan will not work.

[allenk4]

Looking forward to lots of pictures

Best of luck

[EVOlved]

Personally I wouldn't have worried about clearing it just touch up paint and level it. I wouldn't have sanded until I had let the touch up paint cure so then everything would have been level, with less clear coat removed. So the process if it were me would have been put something behind the holes to put the epoxy in to a little below paint level, add touch up paint to above current level a little bit (which is usually uncontrollable anyway), then sand that and the surrounding area then polish it out and be on my way. Because now odds are you are going to want to sand again to get everything level.

[The Guz]

The other option was to find those push pin style license plate filler plugs.

Good luck on your project.

[Tector]

I was thinking about what I would do if I had my heart set on getting rid of the holes and I didn't have the ability to clear the bumper myself. If you do all of the prep work on the bumper and the post sanding and buffing you should be able to find someone who will shoot the clear at a reasonable cost. They could do your bumper while clearing another job and it would cost them almost nothing. You always mix more clear than you need anyway (or in this case you could make sure you did) and there would be no extra cleanup. Or you could find someone like myself in your area who does work like this part time and isn't trying to make a bunch of money on the job. The prep and post work take the most time and we could walk you through that part. It's not difficult it just takes time. Just an idea.

[Crispy]

It is almost impossible to blend Clear, however it is possible to reduce the noticeability. First it depends where the damage is and how close to a body line it is. I do this all the time with Areosol cans only.
On the front bumper you can use the corners as a cut off point. Base coat blending is as important as blending Clear. The colour is what you want on the repair area and feathered into existing (usually about 3" past repair). I sand entire panel with 1500 grit (any area that the Clear may touch). Apply the basecoat and then the Clear. Base coat should be concentrated on the repair and the Clear to the entire panel. When I do my front bumper (every spring it seems) I use the corners as the (soft paint line) to make the repair less noticeable. After letting cure couple days I wet sand with 2000 grit(or lower) to fix any overspray or roughness. Then I buff out the sanding marks and good to go.

[Crispy]

It is almost impossible to blend Clear, however it is possible to reduce the noticeability. I do this with Areosol only. First it depends where the damage is and how close to a body line it is. On the front bumper you can use the corners as a cut off point. Base coat blending is as important as blending Clear. The colour is what you want on the repair area and feathered into existing (usually about 3" past repair). I sand entire panel with 1500 grit (any area that the Clear may touch). Apply the basecoat and then the Clear. Base coat should be concentrated on the repair and the Clear to the entire panel. When I do my front bumper (every spring it seems) I use the corners as the (soft paint line) to make the repair less noticeable. After letting cure couple days I wet sand with 2000 grit(or lower) to fix any overspray or roughness. Then I buff out the sanding marks and good to go.

[FUNX650]

@ Crispy...

I've been enjoying your revivifying-style here lately!! :xyxthumbs:


Bob

[2black1s]

Filling those license plate holes is not as simple as you might think.

First, the repair area will be a minimum of 2-3 times the actual diameter of the hole. This is due to the distortion of the bumper material caused by the self tapping screws that were in there and the raised material they caused. Removing the raised material increases the size of the repair.

Next you need to consider the product and process used to fill the holes. Chamfering the holes before applying the filler is always a good practice as it will increase the bond area. But it also increases the size of the repair again.

And finally, even if you do the best repair possible and repaint the entire bumper there will always be ghost lines evident around the repaired holes. It's just the nature of the beast with these types of repairs on plastic/urethane materials.

This is a pick your poison type of repair. Some methods will look better than others but if you're looking for perfection - forget it.

I would probably try a middle of the road approach first... Trim off any raised material with a single edge razor blade, then put a very slight chamfer on each hole. Fill the hole with your material of choice trying to leave the filler slightly below the surrounding surface (for paint). Apply the color coat with a brush (again slightly below the surrounding area), then finish the fill with how ever many coats of clear as it takes (again, using a brush). Finish by trimming (single edge razor blade), wet-sanding, and polishing the clear coat.