Cleaning leather with APC question

[Grifffx4]

I did my 2nd paying job yesterday on my coworkers-fathers 2001 BMW 750iL. It was just a interior detail only.

The leather seats were tan and very very dirty. I tried using my GG6 DA with the upholstery brush on it and Meg's APC mixed 4:1 to clean the leather. I noticed on my first section that the dye appeared to be coming out of the seat. The seats were fairly worn after years of neglect but was unable to to determine if it was just the filth coming out of the seat or I was damaging the seat so I discontinued and just went with Meg's Interior Detailer to wipe the seats down. I explained to the owner what was happening and he was ok with it.

The slurry from the seat using the APC was tan in color and it appeared the the small section I did took the color out while it was wet (I could see dark spots) but dried up with no sign of damage.

I take it my 4:1 APC was too strong. I've used it on several vehicles leather before without issue so I'm not sure what was happening. I take it that because it was a BMW that the leather was of higher quality and more sensitive to the cleaner than the others I've used it on that were probably more synthetic blend leather seats.

Any advice? Suggested leather cleaners I should get?

I have been thinking of getting Meg's D180...

[dfoxengr]

Could've just been really dirty. Note, never spray cleaner directly on leather, it may streak.

[Kingston]

Explain your method. Was it just spray, agitate and wipe off? If so thats really risky with 4:1 apc. I use a bucket of hot water, spray with apc, then use a boars hair type brush to scrub then remove ASAP. It takes a while to get used to what types of leathers are most sensitive, like Buicks.

Far as the colored slurry, it happens all the time, but 4:1 is too strong to be sprayed directly on a dry seat, for most leathers.

Btw, we use the brushes that black people use for their hair. Very short bristles maybe half inch. Buy them at sally beauty supply for $2. Tried everything, these are the best, and they have stiffer and softer styles for all types of fabric

[Kingston]

Sorry didnt see the method.....bad idea to scrub a 740 with a DA brush. Start out least aggressive then move up

[CarolinasFinestDetailing]

What speed did you have the brush? Also, no pressure really needed.

[ShoweTimeShines]

Here`s a quick write up on leather and its pH balances when acquiring products to use on leathers from vehicles to home interiors as well.


What is pH anyway?

pH is a measure of the acidity or alkalinity (basicity) of a substance. It is measured on a scale that runs from 1 to 14 where the center point --- 7 --- is neutral as determined by pure water. Any measure below 7 is acidic and any measure above 7 is alkaline. This scale is logarithmic. This means that a substance with a pH of 6 is 10 times more acidic than water (pH of 7) and continuing down the scale, a pH of 5 is 100 times more acidic than water. The same differential applies going up the scale as well.

How does this apply to leather?

Leather is acidic. Its pH is measured at between 4.5 and 5.0. Household cleaners are alkaline. Windex, 409, Mr. Clean are all common household cleaners with a pH of exceeding 9.0 and topping out at 11.45 (Windex). Given the logarithmic nature of the scale, that represents a huge differential compared to leather.
Leather is a very absorbent material if possible you were able to get by with a 4:1 ratio in which is a heavy combination being you are below the neutral and now it is an acidic the reaction nonetheless will slowly but permanently damage the leather’s fiber structure, weakening it in the process.
As for myself before doing any leather seats I always do a test spot that is hidden either with my steamer on setting Low or with a leather cleaner that is with a high water ratio to stay within a good alkaline stat.
I don’t use APC for leather and if I did I wouldn’t go below a 10:1 ratio being that is the red line for me, but that’s me and others may feel different. One rule of thumb for me is always approach the job in the least aggressive manner I rather tell the customer what kind of condition the material or leather is in and what kind of alternatives we could use to accommodate the cleanliness then to damage the material and give them an explanation.

[STPETEDALE]

Sounds like seats probably were dyed. I would look for overspray on side buckles etc to confirm.

[Grifffx4]

Thanks guys, lesson learned.


What's your guys suggestion for a good leather cleaner I should buy?

[frankprozzoly]

I just had katzkin put in and my head was spinning from all the different ways to protect it. I ended up testing leather honey, bickmore and leather masters. Seeing the results I'm gonna go with leather masters cleaner and cream. Its easy to apply, I use my fingers to rub in. And I'm pretty sure it's all water based. It doesn't smear. Just dries and the leather doesn't change in anyway

[wdmaccord]

Definitely should not be stronger than 1:10 for ANY interior cleaning (including vinyl and plastics)...some are different like CG AC+ which is 1:20 for interior. And you should check the APC to make sure it is safe for leather at that dilution. For example, see Blackfire APC which indicates safe on leather at 1:10.

This is one reason I personally choose to use a dedicated leather cleaner, then I just know. I have been using CG Leather Cleaner and it works really well. Dilutes 1:6 so you get 112 oz. out of one 16 oz. bottle.

Personally, I never clean leather with a machine either. Always by hand in least aggressive order: towel/wipedown --> vent brush --> leather cleaning brush. I have seen some really dirty leather and I have never had to go beyond one of these 3 steps.

[WAXOFF]

BMW uses junk leather. I worked on these cars for 25 years and the leather would crack and split. When I worked for Lexus I never saw a cracked leather seat.

[inDetail]

My Favorite APC for interior is OPC. Gentle but works really well. For a brush I use a Kiwi shoe shining brush. It's gentle and really cleans well. They are much cheaper then detailing brushes and do a great job.

[wdmaccord]

BMW uses junk leather. I worked on these cars for 25 years and the leather would crack and split. When I worked for Lexus I never saw a cracked leather seat.

Hmm...I just did a 2009 Lexus RX last weekend and the outside bolsters of both front seats were cracked. I really don't think the leather had been cleaned or conditioned/protected since it was purchased though.

[WAXOFF]

I left Lexus in 2007 so I can't speak for any after that. All I know is when our detailer would clean an earlier model year that even had close to 200K on it that it looked brand new. Maybe they cheapened them after I left.

[5jjt]

Sorry didnt see the method.....bad idea to scrub a 740 with a DA brush. Start out least aggressive then move up

There exists a da brush that is super soft. It is softer than the soft tire/wheel well brushes that have purposely frayed/split ends at the bristles. it is sold at one of the major detailers site. i did not know if i could list a link or write where to buy it in this public forum. PM me if your interested.:dblthumb2: