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View Full Version : A very important word of caution - Everyone should read



Nth Degree
06-09-2014, 11:41 PM
A couple of days ago one of my customers contacted me in a bit of a panic. In an attempt to remove the bugs from the front of his Lexus he sprayed it with Stoner Tarminator. While Tarminator is an effective bug remover it turned out to be too strong for the plastic lenses of the headlights and turned them a chalky white. The car also has a clear bra that he was lucky was not also adversely affected.

He told me he decided to use Tarminator (despite having Poorboy's Bug Squash at his disposal) based upon some good reviews he had read about it online.



Several valuable lessons can be learned from this that everyone here should keep in mind:



1. Carefully consider the source of any advice you receive. There are many great detailers here who offer great advice. There are also a lot of enthusiasts who offer suggestions based upon their experience but don't really understand the risks of certain methods or products. There is a lot, I repeat, A LOT of bad advice floating around on other, non-detailing car sites. Oven cleaner for cleaning wheels is just one example. Sure it cleans the wheel but it's not a matter of if, but when it will cause irreparable damage.


2. Always use a product specifically designated for the task. Oven cleaner is for ovens. Pledge is for furniture. Whatever you need to accomplish on your vehicle, there is a product for it. Windex is a perfect example. There is a reason there are automotive glass cleaners. Ammonia based cleaners can damage interior plastics. Automotive glass cleaners are designed to be safe for tinted windows and most plastics. There are exceptions to this but, unless you understand what the product is made of and how it works, it is best to consult a professional. They may tell you to go ahead. They may say "Stop! Set it down and back away from the vehicle." Or they may suggest a better product for the task.


3. Always start with the least aggressive method and allow the product time to do its job. Step up only when necessary. Sometimes a second application of the milder method is better than going more aggressive. Testing in a small, inconspicuous area is also wise. If you are going to have to fix a problem caused it is better to do it on a small scale than to have to fix the whole car.


4. Read the directions... and follow them. Particularly the warnings. One of the biggest mistakes I see people make is using too high of a concentration of chemicals. If your car wash soap says 1 oz./gal of water don't think that 2 oz./gal will be better. Allowing products to dry on the paint is also a problem as the chemical becomes more concentrated as the water evaporates. If a product says not to use in direct sun or on a hot surface you best follow that advice. My customer admitted that, after discovering the issue with his headlights, he decided to read the label. Sure enough, it warns that it can damage some plastics.


5. When in doubt consult a professional. Forums are great but there are also many groups on Facebook where many great detailers are at your disposal and questions are often answered much quicker. I highly recommend looking into the group "Detailing for Dummies (https://www.facebook.com/groups/206537342838215/)" and "Ask a Detailer (https://www.facebook.com/groups/413322145433226/)" Despite the name of the former it is not just for dummies. Some of the best in the business answer technical questions daily.



You might be thinking "Yeah. I already knew all this." Well, so does my customer but he had a momentary lapse of reason and wanted to take a shortcut. In doing so he cost himself more time and money than if he had just done it the safe way.


I read a lot of posts of people are asking about ill-advised products or giving poor advice. I encourage everyone to add their anecdotes to reinforce this concept so that anyone reading can learn from the mistakes of others.

richy
06-10-2014, 12:30 AM
Your "short cut" comes from using the correct product correctly.

Tato
06-10-2014, 07:21 AM
Always good to read and think about the subject you're warning us.

Thanks for this.

Have a great day.

thebamboo23
06-10-2014, 07:26 AM
good tips

but why did Tarminator turn the headlights chalky?

Nth Degree
06-10-2014, 07:49 AM
good tips

but why did Tarminator turn the headlights chalky?


Since I didn't see it happen I can't say for sure. It could have been in direct sunlight, the surface could have been hot due to having just been driven with the lights on, left on too long, or just a specific reaction with the coating of the lenses.

Mike Phillips
06-10-2014, 07:51 AM
5. When in doubt consult a professional.


Forums are great




I'd say a high caliber forum is a great place to ask for help and the interface is so much nicer than the little tiny box you have to type in when on Facebook.


I post to Facebook everyday, heck just posted a new article and a video to my Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/Mike.Phillips.Autogeek) and while I was there answered two guys questions on removing swirls and when my next detailing boot camp class is coming up.

I also recommended to them to join the AGO forum not just because of the high caliber of information provided and the friendly forum personality but because of the interface, that is the message box I'm typing in and the thread you started are so much bigger and easier to discuss detailing in versus the tiny little boxes on Facebook.






but there are also many groups on Facebook where many great detailers are at your disposal and questions are often answered much quicker.





Yeah I don't know about quicker... and I don't think you can say they are all family friendly or even professional as far as respect and courtesy goes. From what I've read... lots of drama.

And due to the tiny little message boxes and the inability to FORMAT text like you did in you post on this forum, answers are much harder to post that are in-depth and thus helpful. In fact most of what I read on Facebook pages in the way of help are one-liners and single paragraphs.


That's just me though... I've been posting to forums ever since this software was introduced to the Internet and posted to the Usenet Newsgroups starting in 1994. Not as long as some but longer than many.

Here's my article on the history of discussion forums....

Discussion Forums - A relatively "new" invention... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-make-money-detailing-cars/24038-discussion-forums-relatively-new-invention.html)



I've seen a lot of people claim some new software was going to be the new big thing but to date, nothing can replace the benefits and features of a forum like the one you shared your post on.



:props:

Klasse Act
06-10-2014, 08:09 AM
Great post Nth Degree, especially the one that says use a product that's made for what your working on, case in point for me is the use of DAWN! "Takes grease out of your way"...now let that sink in a bit, pardon the pun, I for one would NEVER EVER use this on my car or someones car I'm working on, no way, EVER! Yes I know many here have used to as part of a complete detail w/o an issue but has anyone ever did a test to see what its done to the clear, maybe there's no way to do this, I don't know but its made to breakdown grease quickly and easily and as far as I know there's no grease of that kind on your clear, or eggs and saugage either, LOL!

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online

PiPUK
06-14-2014, 03:23 AM
Great post Nth Degree, especially the one that says use a product that's made for what your working on, case in point for me is the use of DAWN! "Takes grease out of your way"...now let that sink in a bit, pardon the pun, I for one would NEVER EVER use this on my car or someones car I'm working on, no way, EVER! Yes I know many here have used to as part of a complete detail w/o an issue but has anyone ever did a test to see what its done to the clear, maybe there's no way to do this, I don't know but its made to breakdown grease quickly and easily and as far as I know there's no grease of that kind on your clear, or eggs and saugage either, LOL!

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online

I'm sure you know I'm going to disagree and tell you that every last ingredient in dawn has been tested to death on paintwork... because every last ingredient will be found if you take a bunch of car shampoos and check their contents.

On the topic, the truth is that there is a lot of contradicting info out there, even on a forum like this. I am lucky that I know the chemistry and can sniff myths and BS marketing from a mile away. My best advice is to try and understand the recommendations you are given, rather than follow it blindly. My plea is that anyone who does proceed without genuinely understanding, please please refrain from subsequently posting advice which might make a reader think that it is anything beyond anecdote. The detailing sector is so mixed up by advice from people who post incorrect advice in attempts to bolster post counts and gain reputation.

mg6045
06-14-2014, 06:49 AM
good tips

but why did Tarminator turn the headlights chalky?

because polycarbonate (clear plastic) is extremely sensitive to solvents and alkaline cleaners.

most all bug and tar removers contain one of these chemicals. And most manufacturers of products containing either chemical are responsible enough to state this on the product label.

just look at the description for DP Cleanse all. They responsibly state this in the advertisement.

Paul A.
06-14-2014, 11:32 AM
All good advice and this forum has improved my "thinking" part of the detailing game. Because of you guys and gals and the exchange here on all kinds of topics, i have developed a better head game and think more like a pro.

And my 2 mantras...use the least aggressive approach to effectively address and correct the issues both inside and outside of the vehicle! And...

Test spot, test spot, test spot.