Paint Hardness General Question

[kevin_1981]

So far, I've only done paint correction on a 1998 Civic, 2007 Highlander, and 2007 Scion TC. I'm not sure how to judge "hardness" of a paint.

In my opinion, the Civic was harder to correct, but looked best after correction (took and aggresive approach). The Toyota and TC seemed very easy to correct, other than RIDS, but after completing a 3 step (Compound, Polish, Seal, and Wax - for the heck of it), it seems like the paint gets swirls/scratches extremely easily.... like if i rub my sweatshirt against the car when its clean.

A - is this due to soft paint?
B - any suggestions on ways to better protect the paint, other than using a coating?

Thanks in advance!

[Blackthorn One]

Softer paint is easier to correct, provided that it isn't a self healing paint that is gummy.
Proper wash techniques and maintaining 2 or 3 coats of lsp as a sacrificial barrier is the best way to protect paint, in conjunction with being garaged. If no garage, then I like a car cover. There is a touchless car cover that is best.

Always keep a bottle of waterless wash in your trunk along with some mf towels in a sealed container. This way, you will be able to remove bird droppings as soon as you see them. If you don't they can etch into the paint.

[sethr]

A lot depends on the clear coat they used. The stuff used on plastic panels is more flexible--so, softer. But, soft is relative.

I get swirls in some areas, but not others. I think it is like yours, from rubbing against, etc. Being a black mettalic it really shows.

But, I don't think it is in the clear coat. I haven't tested (am about to!!), but I think it is the "sacrificial" sealant. Everything was glossed up with Swirl-X, two coats of DG 105, then a coat of DG 111. My tought now is the swirl (hopefully) is only in the DG--though any brand will do that.

I'm thinking a quick pass with DG polish on a soft pad, then a fresh coat of sealant will clean up thos areas without paint torture.

The whole car still beads and sheets water though as of a major rain storm yesterday. And, that's after two months. I DO dry it with FCS that has 10% Aquawax mixed in it though.

[swanicyouth]

Soft paint / hard paint - it doesn't matter.

The legend of the "super soft" Jet Black BMW paint is just that - a legend. BMW uses the same clear coat on all their colors during a particular run in a particular location. I asked the guy at the Spartanburg factory at the paint area. So, since you are working on the clear coat - not the color coat... What color is underneath - it makes no difference.

What does make a difference is the visibility of defects on various colors. Darker colors like Jet Black make spotting the defects so much easier under bright light. The clear coat on silver and white BMWs is exactly as hard as the clear coat on Jet Black ones - and swirls just as easy. It's just harder for the eye to perceive the defects on certain lighter colored paint.

So, maybe your perception of a certain color/car marring easier is only due to the ease of spotting the defects. It may not be "clinically significant"' wether the defects are easier to create, or just easier to spot... But the "hardness" or "softness" of the paint is not the whole story.

I do agree that hardness of paint, or ease of correct-ability, can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer - or from car to car. But, my guess is your ability to see defects is directly related to your perception of how easily such defects are created. This to me, makes actual "hardness" or "softness" only half of the equation.

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Soft paint / hard paint - it doesn't matter.

The legend of the "super soft" Jet Black BMW paint is just that - a legend. BMW uses the same clear coat on all their colors during a particular run in a particular location. I asked the guy at the Spartanburg factory at the paint area. So, since you are working on the clear coat - not the color coat... What color is underneath - it makes no difference.

What does make a difference is the visibility of defects on various colors. Darker colors like Jet Black make spotting the defects so much easier under bright light. The clear coat on silver and white BMWs is exactly as hard as the clear coat on Jet Black ones - and swirls just as easy. It's just harder for the eye to perceive the defects on certain lighter colored paint.

So, maybe your perception of a certain color/car marring easier is only due to the ease of spotting the defects. It may not be "clinically significant"' wether the defects are easier to create, or just easier to spot... But the "hardness" or "softness" of the paint is not the whole story.

I do agree that hardness of paint, or ease of correct-ability, can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer - or from car to car. But, my guess is your ability to see defects is directly related to your perception of how easily such defects are created. This to me, makes actual "hardness" or "softness" only half of the equation.
Agreed. It would make zero sense if BMW used a soft clear coat on Jet black and a hard clear coat on all other beemer colors. With that said, I'm gonna say that BMW uses a clear coat on the softer side on all their cars. Defects are just more noticeable on jet black and it may be harder to finish as a result of the soft clear.

[FUNX650]

Hi Mark...

"ZL1 Mark":
A more befitting Forum name...
I like it!!:dblthumb2:

Bob

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Hi Mark...

"ZL1 Mark":
A more befitting Forum name...
I like it!!:dblthumb2:

Bob
Hi Bob,

By no means is it original, however, I like it, too.

Thanks! :dblthumb2:

[Lexi65]

Softer paint is easier to correct, provided that it isn't a self healing paint that is gummy.
Proper wash techniques and maintaining 2 or 3 coats of lsp as a sacrificial barrier is the best way to protect paint, in conjunction with being garaged. If no garage, then I like a car cover. There is a touchless car cover that is best.

Always keep a bottle of waterless wash in your trunk along with some mf towels in a sealed container. This way, you will be able to remove bird droppings as soon as you see them. If you don't they can etch into the paint.

Never heard of a touchless car cover...can you extrapolate please? Feed back please. :buffing:

[Lexi65]

A lot depends on the clear coat they used. The stuff used on plastic panels is more flexible--so, softer. But, soft is relative.

I get swirls in some areas, but not others. I think it is like yours, from rubbing against, etc. Being a black mettalic it really shows.

But, I don't think it is in the clear coat. I haven't tested (am about to!!), but I think it is the "sacrificial" sealant. Everything was glossed up with Swirl-X, two coats of DG 105, then a coat of DG 111. My tought now is the swirl (hopefully) is only in the DG--though any brand will do that.

I'm thinking a quick pass with DG polish on a soft pad, then a fresh coat of sealant will clean up thos areas without paint torture.

The whole car still beads and sheets water though as of a major rain storm yesterday. And, that's after two months. I DO dry it with FCS that has 10% Aquawax mixed in it though.

Sorry..what is FCS?

[Blackthorn One]

Never heard of a touchless car cover...can you extrapolate please? Feed back please. :buffing:
A touchless car cover is basically a tent for your car. It is indoor only right now. I understand they are developing an outdoor version.

Here is a video : [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzQC3tNubz8]Touchless Car Cover - YouTube[/video]

[FUNX650]

A touchless car cover is basically a tent for your car. It is indoor only right now. I understand they are developing an outdoor version.

Here is a video : Touchless Car Cover - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzQC3tNubz8)
That would be quite a struggle, trying to keep the business side of the tent from touching any thing...getting, so to say: contaminated.

Perhaps a person could use an overhead lifting device...
even based off this item (?):

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/image325.jpg (http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/77103)


Bob

[sethr]

Sorry..what is FCS?

Duragloss Fast Clean & Shine. Their auto-side detail spray.

[sethr]

Keep in mind how thin clear coat really is. A lot depends on the VOC (solids content) they use and how many coats.

When I re-spray, my clear is 4.2 VOC, leaving (according to manufacturer) about 1.1 mil per coat. I tack plus two. Sometimes three.

Sound like a lot? Grab your kitchen trash bag box and read the label. Probably .9 mil. SO, if they shoot two coats at factory, even using a high VOC clear, you're looking at 2-3 thicknesses of your trash bag; maybe a touch more.

[kevin_1981]

Thanks you for the help, everyone!

[trekkeruss]

That would be quite a struggle, trying to keep the business side of the tent from touching any thing...getting, so to say: contaminated.


I can't see how an outdoor version would work either; it would have to be really stiff to stand up to wind.