Possibly Stupid Question - Orange Peel

[kevin_1981]

I am very new to detailing/paint correction. If a car still has orange peel on factory paint, is it a safe assumption that the paint depth is fine for compounding (not at risk of cutting it down too much)? This seems like common sense that if there is orange peel, its probably still thick, but I'm unsure of if clearcoat would wear down, while maintaining the orange peel look.

Hope this makes sense.

[refreshauto]

seeing orange peel on a car is not a measurement of paint. most cars have orange peel as the paint doesn't lay down flat most of the time. the only way to check if there is enough paint on your car for compounding to to get a paint gauge. you have to remember that most factory paint finishes are thinner than a post-it note, that is from Mike Phillips himself.

[jamesboyy]

I think your asking can you remove the orange peel safely and the answers is most likely yes based on paint thickness readings
you could remove this blemish my sanding or using denim pads though a word of advice is just live with it that way you have enough skin(clear coat) throughout the life of the vehicle and then if you are gonna keep the vehicle after taking it off the road then you remove the orange peel....just my thoughts

[Vortech5.0]

Risky on factory paint. I agree with above, just shine the heck out of it and don't worry about it too much.

[kevin_1981]

Thank you everybody! Info is helpful. Im not looking to take down the orange peel, as it really doesnt bother me all that much. This was more a question of curiousity. This weekend, I might be correcting the brothers Grand Marquis, and the paint is beat to hell, but there is still orange peel on there - but from these responses, it makes it clear that it is not a good measurement of how much clear coat is left.

[Andr3wilson]

You can compound factory multiple times with no problems. The whole clear coat thickness is over played quite a bit.

With regards to using orange peel as a gauge, it actually has some truth to it. If there is OP, no chance you will hit through it. It's actually how I gauge when sanding. I have a number of paint gauges and I really don't use them that much, maybe to get an idea of what's there, but that's it. As a matter of fact I have never seen compounding go through uncompromised clear. Sanding through and burning on a rotary yes, but compounding on a DA, never ever in my life.

Also a little fact, all modern paint has orange peel. To get OP free you can get close if you shoot the clear very thick and layer it on, but then you can make it run very easily. Old solvent based, non VOC single stage, you can do it, or have it to a level you can't see it.

[Mike Phillips]

I am very new to detailing/paint correction.

If a car still has orange peel on factory paint, is it a safe assumption that the paint depth is fine for compounding (not at risk of cutting it down too much)?



I'd say yes.

The tops of the hills are worn away first when doing any type of abrading so a sign of healthy orange peel would to me be an indicator of fairly un-buffed paint, at least not aggressively buffed at some point in it's history.






This seems like common sense that if there is orange peel, its probably still thick,



Yes kind of.... the word thick is kind of relative... the pictures in my article here are a good way to place an anchor in your brain as to how thin or thick the clear layer is from the factory.

Clearcoats are Scratch-Sensitive (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/74234-clearcoats-scratch-sensitive.html)






but I'm unsure of if clearcoat would wear down, while maintaining the orange peel look.

Hope this makes sense.




Makes perfect sense. Generally speaking when buffing with foam pads you more or less remove paint equally over an orange peel surface otherwise there wouldn't be so many people stating the only way to remove orange peel is to sand the paint flat.

The foam provides cushion and conforms to the surface so equal pressure pushing abrasives over both the hills and valleys.

You can remove just the tops of the hills by removing the cushion and using something very hard and flat as proved by the CarPro Denim pads.

I've also removed orange peel using a wool pad but it's a lot of pushing work, that is pushing the pad hard against the paint.

See the pictures in this thread...


Can orange peel be removed or lessoned by just machine compounding? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/50534-can-orange-peel-removed-lessoned-just-machine-compounding.html)



Good question.


:dblthumb2:

[Mike Phillips]

You can compound factory multiple times with no problems.




I agree. I know I have....


Remember, the OP didn't ask about sanding factory paint, he wants to know if he can compound factory paint and if the visual appearance of orange peel is an indicator there's still a safe range of paint on the car to use a compound.

I say yes but would add that the best approach is to

A: Use the least aggressive product to get the job done.

B: Use a quality compound. Modern compounds are NOT like they use to be. Modern quality compounds cut, polish and finish out like a polish. Caveman compounds cut and scour the paint.


:xyxthumbs:

[FUNX650]

The whole clear coat thickness is over played quite a bit.
Not really...
When considering all of the threads, on all of the detailing forums, where people report "going through/burning through" OEM factory-sprayed CC...or experiencing "cloudiness" under the CC, and other beginnings of CC-failures, for example.

Bob

[jms493]

Orange Peel is from the Clearcoat not laying flat or the paint not laying flat...or both?

[Andr3wilson]

Well Bob I'm speaking from hands on experience from working in the paint refinishing industry and detailing. Shaving runs out of fresh paint with a razor blade, sanding out dust with a 1000 grit stone and not grooving or dipping the paint. I live this everyday. Take a factory painted panel and sand it with 1200 until you punch through, you will be surprised at how much it really takes

Orange peel comes from clear not laying flat. Base coat is actually matte finished and water based. Next to impossible to run or screw up. If you run clear bad enough, you can pull base with it - that ruins your day.

Orange peel contributes a lot to how the clear is blended. Cheap clear is chocked with accelerator, resulting in yellow tint and very high OP. Also OP is a strong factor in how the painter shoots. It's a very fine line between spray patterns, how much clear is being laid and surface angle. Most spray patterns (trucks especially) simply don't allow for OP free spraying. Solution? Load up the clear. Problem you will get runs which require lots of sanding. Now with show cars this is the way to do it. Refinishing to factory specs you want to blend the OP to the factory OP, if you lay too flat, you can see the respray spot. At the end of the day, painting is something you can do or can't - personally I suck.

[hernandez.art13]

My car was repainted (front end) and it has orange peel,ehh... big deal, it's not a show car nor do I want it to be.

Just ignore it and live with it IMO, it can be removed but like I said above it's not a show car....

[FUNX650]

Well Bob I'm speaking from hands on experience from working in the paint refinishing industry and detailing. Shaving runs out of fresh paint with a razor blade, sanding out dust with a 1000 grit stone and not grooving or dipping the paint. I live this everyday.

Completely different ball game than the thin, thin, THIN CC-paint that's sprayed on vehicles at the OEMs' factory paint kitchens.

Even when not going through/burning through factory sprayed CC when compounding once, twice, or more...So much of its UV-protection has been removed...so much so: That there's a lessening of its expected service life!!


Bob

[Mike Phillips]

Orange Peel is from the Clearcoat not laying flat or the paint not laying flat...or both?





I'm not a painter so don't quote me but I think it can be in both.

When it comes to the factory basecoat, this layer is pretty thin so not a lot of potential for orange peel. Probably more potential in a body shop paint job for orange peel, or at least more orange peel in the basecoat as they probably spray more material. More material means greater chance for less flat paint.


We need more seasoned painters to hang out on this forum. It would be really great to have a Paint Rep from a major player as a regular on this forum.


:)

[kevin_1981]

Thanks again, everyone!