Confused about sealants

[lineman]

I have two WOWA spray sealants. Wolfgang Liquid Spray Sealant and Opti-Seal. According to the directions the Wolfgang needs to be applied to a clean surface without any wax or oils and needs to cue for 8 to 12 hours before topping with a LSP such as wax. The people at Optimum say that Opti-Seal can be topped after about an hour. I can understand that is a difference in formula between the two sealants. However...I am told that you can apply Opyi-Seal to a clean car ( washed and no dirt or dust ) and the Opti-Seal will migrate thru any existing LSP, to the paint. To me this goes against what I have come to understand about sealants. Is Opti-Seal a real sealant as is the Wolfgang and am I really gaining anything by putting Opti-Seal over a LSP ?

[Setec Astronomy]

I think the claim for Opti-Seal was that you could apply it on top of a wax (the general rule is you can apply a wax on top of a sealant but not a sealant on top of a wax), and it will migrate through the wax to the paint.

Yes, Opti-Seal is a real sealant, and if Dr. G says it migrates through the wax, then it migrates through the wax.

[swanicyouth]

Something isn't right here. WG DGLS (WOWA) can be applied over almost any LSP (or no LSP) and the time between coats is about an hour or so. Maybe your confusing it with WG paint sealant?

[cleanmycorolla]

Something isn't right here. WG DGLS (WOWA) can be applied over almost any LSP (or no LSP) and the time between coats is about an hour or so. Maybe your confusing it with WG paint sealant?

Seconded. Liquid Seal can be layered after 1 hour.

[PiPUK]

I have to admit I normally trust Optimum and their literature but I would love to know how they came to the conclusion that Opti-seal migrated through the existing LSP. How did they even measure this? I would not personally want to make a claim like this because the next question is how do they know that it stops at the paint surface and doesn't migrate into the paint? If I was a paint manufacturer, I would be using this as a 'get-out' for anyone who had a paint issue and had used opti-seal (whether I believe it at fault or not).

[Setec Astronomy]

I have to admit I normally trust Optimum and their literature but I would love to know how they came to the conclusion that Opti-seal migrated through the existing LSP. How did they even measure this? I would not personally want to make a claim like this because the next question is how do they know that it stops at the paint surface and doesn't migrate into the paint? If I was a paint manufacturer, I would be using this as a 'get-out' for anyone who had a paint issue and had used opti-seal (whether I believe it at fault or not).

Again, I think the claim pertained to waxes only and not all LSP's. I have to admit when I first heard the claim, it seemed pretty far out there, but I think it was explained that the solvent in the Opti-Seal would float the wax molecules and the Opti-Seal would wind up underneath with the wax re-flashing on top, but I can't find any posts about that to refresh my memory (I can only imagine what your response is going to be about this).

As far as it migrating through the paint, since Dr. G used to formulate clear coat at PPG, I think he's got that thought out.

EDIT: Oops, I found it--quote from Dr. G on his forum:

"Opti-Seal is a highly concentrated formula containing sealant polymers dissolved in a solvent. Once it is applied to any surface, it will bond to it and cross-links fully within 12 hours.

If there is any wax on the surface, Opti-Seal will dissolve it and the polymers will go to the surface and the wax will migrate to the top. This is due to the difference in the surface tension of wax and sealant."

[lineman]

Something isn't right here. WG DGLS (WOWA) can be applied over almost any LSP (or no LSP) and the time between coats is about an hour or so. Maybe your confusing it with WG paint sealant? Your right. I am probably confused between the two. I have the WolfGang Deep Gloss Liquid SeaL ( Spray) I went to their web site and while it says nothing about "Migrating" thru LSP it does say appy over a clean surface. SO...if both can be put over existing LSP is there any real difference in which one I would use and is there really a benifit in applying over a LSP such as a spray on wax like pinnical Souveran spray wax. I want to improve the protection in between my twice a year detail but don't want to throw money down the drain if there is no advantage to applying over my LSP.

[Quality Control]

Your right. I am probably confused between the two. I have the WolfGang Deep Gloss Liquid SeaL ( Spray) I went to their web site and while it says nothing about "Migrating" thru LSP it does say appy over a clean surface. SO...if both can be put over existing LSP is there any real difference in which one I would use and is there really a benifit in applying over a LSP such as a spray on wax like pinnical Souveran spray wax. I want to improve the protection in between my twice a year detail but don't want to throw money down the drain if there is no advantage to applying over my LSP.

From what I understand WG DGLS need to be applied to a suface clean of wax or LSP to ensure bonding to the paint surface. Opti-seal on the other hand dissolves the wax to ensure bonding to the surface. In my mind this is what sets Optimum apart, they continually engineer fantastic products that accomplish amazing results.

[cleanmycorolla]

From what I understand WG DGLS need to be applied to a suface clean of wax or LSP to ensure bonding to the paint surface. Opti-seal on the other hand dissolves the wax to ensure bonding to the surface. In my mind this is what sets Optimum apart, they continually engineer fantastic products that accomplish amazing results.

Optimum is good, but optiSEAL sucks compared to liquid seal.

Either way OP, you're better off stripping the surface to ensure proper bonding with any product, not just these.

[PiPUK]

Again, I think the claim pertained to waxes only and not all LSP's. I have to admit when I first heard the claim, it seemed pretty far out there, but I think it was explained that the solvent in the Opti-Seal would float the wax molecules and the Opti-Seal would wind up underneath with the wax re-flashing on top, but I can't find any posts about that to refresh my memory (I can only imagine what your response is going to be about this).

As far as it migrating through the paint, since Dr. G used to formulate clear coat at PPG, I think he's got that thought out.

EDIT: Oops, I found it--quote from Dr. G on his forum:

"Opti-Seal is a highly concentrated formula containing sealant polymers dissolved in a solvent. Once it is applied to any surface, it will bond to it and cross-links fully within 12 hours.

If there is any wax on the surface, Opti-Seal will dissolve it and the polymers will go to the surface and the wax will migrate to the top. This is due to the difference in the surface tension of wax and sealant."

OK, that makes more sense then. It isn't migrating at all, it is just that it is solvent based which re-dissolves the existing LSP (wax). This is something I have previously mentioned as relevant to almost any solvent based liquid LSP and is pertinent beyond way Optiseal. Basically any product which is using surface substantive polymers and is in a solvent base will do it. That said, be aware that a great many waxes will have polymers of their own which won't be so easily dissolved (you would be surprised how many waxes are actually hybrids, of a sort). So whilst some of the wax may be dissolved and re-deposited, not all of the finish will be so you end up with a real mix of chemistry at the end. I would not be guaranteeing any result, unless the previous LSP was stripped.

[Setec Astronomy]

Be aware that a great many waxes will have polymers of their own... (you would be surprised how many waxes are actually hybrids, of a sort).

That's a point that's worth repeating since a lot of people come and go on forums and this only gets discussed from time to time--that virtually all "waxes" (especially in the post-VOC era) also contain non-wax ingredients.

[lineman]

OK, that makes more sense then. It isn't migrating at all, it is just that it is solvent based which re-dissolves the existing LSP (wax). This is something I have previously mentioned as relevant to almost any solvent based liquid LSP and is pertinent beyond way Optiseal. Basically any product which is using surface substantive polymers and is in a solvent base will do it. That said, be aware that a great many waxes will have polymers of their own which won't be so easily dissolved (you would be surprised how many waxes are actually hybrids, of a sort). So whilst some of the wax may be dissolved and re-deposited, not all of the finish will be so you end up with a real mix of chemistry at the end. I would not be guaranteeing any result, unless the previous LSP was stripped.
SO...are we saying that Opti-Seal will migrate thru a wax but might not migrate thru a hybrid wax that might have polymers ( sealants ) of their own ? I have been using Pinnacle Souveran Spray wax that improved their formula with additional polymers. So it would be best to strip for the best benefit of Opti-Seal or Wolfgang Deep Gloss Liquid Seal spray ?

[Setec Astronomy]

SO...are we saying that Opti-Seal will migrate thru a wax but might not migrate thru a hybrid wax that might have polymers ( sealants ) of their own ? I have been using Pinnacle Souveran Spray wax that improved their formula with additional polymers. So it would be best to strip for the best benefit of Opti-Seal or Wolfgang Deep Gloss Liquid Seal spray ?

I can't speak for PiPUK, but many people seem to have good results topping other LSP's with Opti-Seal, so if you like the results, stick with it.