Water spots

[SpringGroveTA]

I just purchased a new 2014 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk. Picked it up last Friday. Washed it Saturday, late afternoon and detailed it on Sunday. Before I started to apply Paint sealant I noticed some, what I call water spots, on the paint. They are the kind that are pretty much invisible except when direct sunlight hits them or under my flourescent garage lights. They are little outline/rings on the paint. I was pretty pissed that on my NEW vehicle I already had spots!

I decided to polish my vehicle before I applied the sealant. I used Meguirs #7 Show Car Glaze, then followed it up with Wolfgang's 3.0 Paint Sealant. It looked fantastic when I finished and was all pleased. The next day when I was showing it off at work, I noticed I still had quite a few of those "water spots" still on my vehicle. (It was a very sunny day). I am sooo bothered by this....My wife thinks I am nuts because she can't see anything and again, the spots are not noticeable unless you look for them in sunlight or a flashlight. But I know they are there and that pisses me off!

I am pretty sure polish will take them off, as it did for most of them, but I just would like to know what caused them?? Is it the soap I used to wash my Jeep? I used Griot's car shampoo and I always keep my vehicle "wet" until I dry it. Could it be acid rain from sitting on the Dealer lot for a couple of weeks with unprotected paint? I know the dealer doesn't wax every/ or any cars for that matter. They are "virgins" just sitting there in the elements. I should have really looked right after or before I bought the car to see if any spots were present. At this point I am afraid to wash it!! After all these years am I doing something wrong?!

I consider myself very detail oriented and own several classic Pontiac Muscle Cars and always take care of my cars......I am just upset that my brand new vehicle already has paint issues....albeit small, but if anybody can enlighten me, or tell me what causes these types of spots, I can do my best to prevent them from ever happening!

[Mike Phillips]

They are little outline/rings on the paint. I was pretty pissed that on my NEW vehicle I already had spots!



You are describing what I termed Imprint Rings in my how-to book. Here's my article,


Here's the pertinent portion....

3 - Types of Water Spots - Type I, Type II and Type III (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/33499-3-types-water-spots-type-i-type-ii-type-iii.html)


Water Spots are more complex than most people assume because there are different types of water spots. Some water spots are merely mineral deposits on the surface left behind after water with minerals has evaporated off the surface. These deposits can often be washed off the paint using a quality car wash soap.

Sometimes these deposits can also leave an imprint in the paint in the perimeter of the spot and in these cases the imprint must be removed using a compound or paint cleaner as it's a defect in the paint, not simply a deposit on the paint. Some sources of water, be it rain with air-borne pollution mixed-in, or sprinkler water from a city water supply or well water, can have corrosive enough elements in it that it will actually eat into or etch the paint leaving a depression or crater in the paint where the water dwelled or dried.

A Type II water spot can only be removed by leveling the surrounding paint by hand or machine with some type of abrasive compound or paint cleaner.


Type III Water Spots are primarily a stain in the paint which looks like fading where water pooled and then dwelled for some measure of time. This primarily happens to single stage paints which tend to be more porous and thus will absorb water into itself. If Type III Water Spots are limited to only the upper surface of the paint then they can be removed by abrading the paint by hand or machine with a compound or polish.

Before attempting to remove water spots it is important to first diagnose which type of water spot is affecting your car's paint.



Type I Water Spots
These are Mineral Deposits or what people commonly call "Hard Water Spots". It's the minerals in water that people are referring to when they use the word "hard" in the term "Hard Water Spots.

Type I Water Spots are primarily a mineral or dirt deposit laying on the surface of paint. Type I Water Spots can be the results of minerals suspended in city water or well water that are left behind after the water evaporates off the finish. This can happen by washing a car but not drying the water off the paint or if a sprinkler goes off next to the car covering the car with water drop that are not dried off the paint.

Type I Water Spots can also be dirt or pollution particles left behind after water from rain or inclement weather evaporates of the finish. Type I Water Spots can also be Type II Water Spots in that the water can leave both a deposit on the surface and an etching in the finish.



Imprint Rings
These water spots look like they're established water spots, that is, every time it rains, or a sprinkler goes off, the water pools in the same place giving any corrosive substances repeated opportunity to etch into the paint.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS003.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS004.jpg


Visually, I can tell the paint is likely etched in this instance but I won't know till I get the surface clean. The first step is to wash or wipe the finish, in this instance I'm going to repeat wiping process I used on the Mercedes-Benz with a spray detailer.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS007.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS008.jpg


After wiping the paint clean, there are water spot imprints remaining in the paint.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/WaterSpotImprints01.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/WaterSpotImprints02.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/WaterSpotImprints03.jpg









I decided to polish my vehicle before I applied the sealant. I used Meguiars #7 Show Car Glaze, then followed it up with Wolfgang's 3.0 Paint Sealant.



Both of these products are non-abrasive and offer zero cleaning or abrading ability.







I am pretty sure polish will take them off, as it did for most of them, but I just would like to know what caused them??





What caused them is something corrosive enough in the water to etch urethane paint. From above,


Imprint Rings
These water spots look like they're established water spots, that is, every time it rains, or a sprinkler goes off, the water pools in the same place giving any corrosive substances repeated opportunity to etch into the paint.



So the key is to first remove them and then don't ever let water dry on your car.

Besides that keep a good coat of wax, synthetic sealant or a paint coating on your car's paint.


Hope the above helps....



:)

[mjv231]

I just purchased a new 2014 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk. Picked it up last Friday. Washed it Saturday, late afternoon and detailed it on Sunday. Before I started to apply Paint sealant I noticed some, what I call water spots, on the paint. They are the kind that are pretty much invisible except when direct sunlight hits them or under my flourescent garage lights. They are little outline/rings on the paint. I was pretty pissed that on my NEW vehicle I already had spots!

I decided to polish my vehicle before I applied the sealant. I used Meguirs #7 Show Car Glaze, then followed it up with Wolfgang's 3.0 Paint Sealant. It looked fantastic when I finished and was all pleased. The next day when I was showing it off at work, I noticed I still had quite a few of those "water spots" still on my vehicle. (It was a very sunny day). I am sooo bothered by this....My wife thinks I am nuts because she can't see anything and again, the spots are not noticeable unless you look for them in sunlight or a flashlight. But I know they are there and that pisses me off!

I am pretty sure polish will take them off, as it did for most of them, but I just would like to know what caused them?? Is it the soap I used to wash my Jeep? I used Griot's car shampoo and I always keep my vehicle "wet" until I dry it. Could it be acid rain from sitting on the Dealer lot for a couple of weeks with unprotected paint? I know the dealer doesn't wax every/ or any cars for that matter. They are "virgins" just sitting there in the elements. I should have really looked right after or before I bought the car to see if any spots were present. At this point I am afraid to wash it!! After all these years am I doing something wrong?!

I consider myself very detail oriented and own several classic Pontiac Muscle Cars and always take care of my cars......I am just upset that my brand new vehicle already has paint issues....albeit small, but if anybody can enlighten me, or tell me what causes these types of spots, I can do my best to prevent them from ever happening!


You are probably way more knowledgable than I am, as I am just beginning, I would recommended getting Mike's book, for under $20 he covers everything!

Share some pics of your new baby?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SpringGroveTA]

Thx Mike for your input & help. What would you recommend as a paint cleaner? Since it is a brand new car, I was afraid to use anything too abrasive. I have Meguirs fine cut cleaner (not sure what #). If I do it over, I assume I would have to reapply the Wolfgang sealant? It just seems crazy I have to do this on a new car.....live & learn I guess.

[Mike Phillips]

Thx Mike for your input & help. What would you recommend as a paint cleaner? Since it is a brand new car, I was afraid to use anything too abrasive.

I have Meguiars fine cut cleaner (not sure what #).



That would be #2 Fine Cut Cleaner. I have a bottle here in my office from before they changed the formula back in 2005 or 2006. The new formula is a LOT more clearcoat friendly plus VOC compliant. (The old formula was not VOC compliant).

Are you working by hand or machine? If by hand, get a bottle of the Ultimate Polish, it's there newest formula for hand or machine and is VERY safe as it is a fine to an ultra fine cut polish.





If I do it over, I assume I would have to reapply the Wolfgang sealant? It just seems crazy I have to do this on a new car.....live & learn I guess.



Yes. Anytime you apply any type of abrasive polish it will first remove any wax, sealant or coating and then it will start removing defects, i.e. removing paint.


You're experience is the norm. Check this project we did here, at the time we did this Camaro it was 2012 and the Camaro only had 2000 MILES on it.


Video & Pictures: 2012 Black Camaro Convertible - Blackfire Show Car Makeover! (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-autogeek-s-car-week/53703-video-pictures-2012-black-camaro-convertible-blackfire-show-car-makeover.html)


Dull, hazy, filled with swirls and scratches and the clearcoat was no where near clear.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1516/2012CamaroFin019.jpg



And this is off a BRAND NEW CAR?
If you watched the Live Broadcast, you saw me clay most, not all but most of JUST the hood. Keep in mind this Camaro has only 2000 miles on it since purchased new. Look at all the brown crud that came off the hood using Blackfire Detailing Clay.


Where has this car been since rolling out of the assembly plant?
Anyone want to guess what the brown stuff is?

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1516/2012CamaroFin020.jpg


We fixed her good.... real good....


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1516/2012CamaroFin001.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1516/2012CamaroFin002.jpg



:D

[Methodical]

Thx Mike for your input & help. What would you recommend as a paint cleaner? Since it is a brand new car, I was afraid to use anything too abrasive. I have Meguirs fine cut cleaner (not sure what #). If I do it over, I assume I would have to reapply the Wolfgang sealant? It just seems crazy I have to do this on a new car.....live & learn I guess.

Use the fine cut cleaner to see if it removes the stains. Always start less aggressive then go up from there. Yes, you will need to reapply the sealant. You only need to work the area with issues though.

[SpringGroveTA]

Thx guys. Appreciate the help. Just hard to believe in the short amount of time this vehicle has seen the light of day that water could etch the paint already! I guess that's what has me bummed. Are today's paints & clearcoats that soft that this could happen so fast? I have a 70 Trans Am that was painted in early 80's with lacquer & its still shines & never had to worry about water etching. Just don't remember having issues like this years ago....or maybe I never noticed.

[tuscarora dave]

I just mentioned in your introduction thread, that some days I can walk outside (mostly on foggy days) and smell the paper mill down there, all the way up here in Etters PA.

I can't help but wonder what exactly it is that you smell coming off of that plant (was told it's from the pulp), and what effects (if any) it might have locally, say in Hanover... when the rains bring whatever you smell down onto the local cars at dealerships and it dwells on the paint.?...

Wonder if what you can smell is slightly acidic or basic and may be causing water spot etching on dealer lots after a rain.?..

Just thinking is all...

[SpringGroveTA]

Dave, yeah I wonder if that has anything to do with it. To be honest with you I don't seem to smell it much at my house. I must live upwind from it...or I am just that used to it. I am told that yes, the smell comes from the pulp process...hopefully it's not harmful! Thanks for the thought....