Blackfire Polish question

[Panzer]

Hello all,

I just joined the forum a few days ago and just purchased a huge order. I'm looking forward to getting my black 2013 Tacoma in tip top shape. The dealer really did a number on it and I didn't know what I was doing last summer trying to correct it. I've been researching a lot on Autogeek and couldn't quite find an answer to my question.

I purchased the Lake Country 5.5 PC 7424XP kit and the Blackfire Whiplash Black ICE mini kit. I selected 2 orange, 2 white, 1 red, and 1 gold CCS pad. I also purchased the Blackfire DUO kit which includes the SRC compound and the SRC finishing polish. I also purchased the Pinnacle poly clay kit.

Now to my question: should I use the gloss enhancing polish after the SRC polish and what type of pad with the gloss enhancing polish? I know to use the white pad with the SRC finishing polish. I have some swirls in my paint and a little marring when the sun hits it from a previous compounding amateur mistake. Also, what speed setting on the PC with the SRC compound and the SRC polish? I do plan on starting with the SRC finishing polish first and will go to the compound if needed. Thanks!


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[cleanmycorolla]

GEP. Is not needed after the SRC finishing polish. You can go straight to your wax or sealant. GEP is great for cleaning your paint a few months down the road if you want to clean up and reapply a fresh coat. You'd ideally use a white or black pad with it.

As far as what speed. Try a test spot and work from there, but 4-5 should be the range as always.

Also, I'd get more pads for each step. Two won't be enough, or change your order, no need for the gold get extra cutting pads or polishing pads.

[Panzer]

Thanks for your reply. The order is already in transit.

It still won't be enough if I clean the pad as I go?


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[ShaunD]

Well welcome to AutoGeek. You kinda did the intro thing backwards but, well do the best we can now that you've already got an order on the way.:)
I did a black 2011 Tundra about for months ago and it was an experience, to say the least. This clear is on the softer side IMO and can be a pain to finish if you don't keep the pads clean and know proper technique for contours/body lines. Areas that gave me the most trouble were the portions of the body that start protruding out about a foot before the bottom of the body. Also the top of the bed, if working between a pin stripe and a bed rail covering or coating, can be difficult to get perfect. Are 5.5" pads the only size you have/have coming? You can get by with the few you will but, you will need to learn to clean on the fly with a spray bottle on hand for optimal cleaning. It may be best, regardless of the number of pads, to break thos job up into several days so you can keep your focus and clean pads and let them dry. This is not the best vehicle to attempt as your first paint correction. You need to find a practice vehicle or panel before honing your polishing skills on your black Tundra. Good thing is that you have a huge roof that is out of site and fairly easy to reach most of it from the bed, so you could practice on it if absolutely necessary. Also, once you remove the swirls you may start seeing RIDS that require the compound and the setup you will be working with may not be able to cut them. Will be best to just let them go for now. Learn the skill of proper test spots, before even attempting a whole panel. You really might want to reach out to a detailed or two in your area that are on the forums so you can get through the learning curve a little easier.:)

[HD.Detailing]

you should be fine with 2 pads.

Do you have compressed air?? I use that after each section and def. learn to "clean on the fly" watch Mike's video

As everyone else said

[Desertnate]

In addition to the good advice already provided, I'd encourage you to do a test spot with the mildest pad/product combo, i.e. the finishing polish on a polishing pad, before going to the SRC compound.

I've found the paint on my Highlander to be rather soft and very easy to correct. I was able to knock out some pretty easy swirls with only only a polishing pad and Meguiars Ultimate polish. You may be able to knock out the swirls without having to go clear to a compound, or save the compound only for the worst areas and hit the rest of the truck with the polish.

[Panzer]

Thanks. I do have compressed air. I was going to order more pads today, but now I'm a little confused. I have seen the video with the terry towel.

What types of pads should I order if I do? I was thinking 2 more orange, 2 white, 2 black CCS pads. Let me know.


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[Tato]

Dear, just talk about pads,

First, you can never have too many. I've managed to polish almost an entire car (not a big car) with one 5" polishing pad... used a second just to finish the work on some areas. Sure, the pad brush and pad conditioning spray (I use #34 Meg's) were very used and abused, and the pad looked somewhat 'corrupted' at the end.

So, do I need only 1 (ONE) pad?!

Please, if you'll read my comment literally, we're going the wrong way.

What I mean is, you can work even if one pad, but it's preferable to have at least 1 - clean pad - for each panel. That would be the best approach in my opinion.

If you have only 2, try to divide 'half' the car for one pad, half for the other. Otherwise you can use one for vertical panels, and another for horizontal panels, you name it.

Or you can wash them during work. Use one, wash it, spin it almost dry at the polisher then let it (face down / velcro up) over a MF towel. Go back to polishing with the other pad, and when you need a clean one, wash the actual, get the earlier, and so on.

Ah, that's a lot of work, I know! But can be done.

Now you see why you will never have too many? A new, clean pad will perform better and way beyond smooth than a 'corrupted' pad like described above.

GENERALLY, you need more CUTTING pads and POLISHING pads than finishing pads.

I tell this because Cutting / Polishing pads gets lots more of ABUSE then finishing / waxing pads.

Feel 'GLAD' you've order the gold finishing pad, it's the most incredible pad for application of carnauba waxes.

In this case, 1 pad is enough for entire vehicle, and for many, many, many uses. That's because you don't exert lot (if any) pressure while applying wax and don't run it over high speeds.

For waxing, 1 gold pad may 'outlive' you.

So, if you're thinking of stocking pads, get more cutting and polishing pads than finishing / waxing (sealing) pads.

Also, if you're starting now, you should not stock up just one kind of pad, it's preferable to order different sizes and formats (Flat, CCS, Hydro-Tech, MicroFiber, etc) to see what you like most and what works better for you.

After you find it out, you may stock up the pads you like most.

End of story, you can do with only 1 pad, better with 2, way better with 3, and so on - if you can switch to a NEW CLEAN pad every panel that will be way better.

Also, pad rotation not only will improve your outcome and make polishing experience way more enjoyable, it'll make all pads last more. i.e, if you have 2 pads, they will last 4 jobs (EXAMPLE!), if you have 4 pads, they all will last likely much more than 8 jobs because you're preserving them every time you switch to a new one and stop 'abusing' the pad.


Hope I've helped,

Kind Regards.

[Panzer]

Wow. Thanks everyone for the support here. I might order a few more orange and a few more white pads along with some gray so I have them just in case. I do plan on using the polish first with the white pad and will go from there.


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[Tato]

Thank you for feedback.

Take a look at this thread by Nick@AG, it's somewhat 'old' but still actual and I'm sure it'll help you out some more:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/41026-blackfire-src-polishes-remove-swirls-water-spots-w-flex-xc3401.html

If you notice, Nick went from orange to gray pad since the orange finished out great. If not, I believe a white pad would be the follow up.

To start, you're right going with the finishing polish on a polishing pad.

We always say to use the least abrasive method, but that's to get the job done, not 'the least abrasive method you know about'.

I'm telling this just to avoid misconceptions... most of time I could say if a paint needs compounding just by looking at it, so, if this is what you judge, makes little sense start using a finishing polish on a finishing pad. I've been there, and I know the outcome will be less than desirable (if you're looking for a nice and shiny swirl free finish).

I mean, when I feel the need for a compound just by looking at the paint (inspection stage), I may start with a polishing pad and a polish for my test spot.

This 'middle' approach will tell you if you can stick with your choice, step up or down, and how much. It'll give you much information about the paint you're working on, in real-time.

If defects are eliminated, just go out reproducing what you've done at the spot. If you need slightly step up, choose to switch to a compound on the same pad, or the same polish on a coarser pad (I prefer the first). If you need huge step up, switch to a compound on a coarser pad.

If you start with finishing approach on a paint that 'obviously' needs compounding, you'll be stepping up to a polishing test, and from there you'll decide to maintain or step up.

In this case, you'll be doing at least 3 tests, while when starting with a polishing step for testing maybe you just do 1 test (the polishing pad test) and from there you'll be certain of what would work better.

Please, keep in mind that everything I say is not a 'rule', or the 'right and best way to do things'. This is just to illustrate how I like to think about it. Also, do as many test spots you need, until you feel you're assured on what'll work best.

Also, many exceptions exists to what I've said, so, deciding what to use 'just by looking at the paint' is not literally (again), you'll only know for SURE when testing a spot.


For polisher speed, correction step is characterized by high speed (mainly speed 6) and heavy pressure, with slowww arm movement. Just be sure to make a mark on the back of your backing plate to assure the pad's spinning. If the pad won't spin (too much pressure, generally), you'll be not removing swirls and scratches.

I've also found a video (gorgeous one, indeed) where Mr. Mike Phillips and Mr. Todd Helme are using (apart from a 3401) many things you'll have in hand, and you'll basically reproduce what they are doing, at your garage.

So, be sure to watch this and you'll be covered. The improvements will come with experience, and that means a lot of hands on work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YIYfAS9vR4

Hope you enjoy, as I do!

Kind Regards.

[Panzer]

Thanks again. I've already watched the video 3 times as I am obsessed. This is why I ordered what I did. I just placed another order for 2 more white, 2 gray, a green and a pink. I also ordered the flex light.


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[Panzer]

CCS LC 5.5 pads


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[Tato]

Great, use plenty of clean pads (prime them properly before each use) to get the job done, you'll enjoy a lot more.

Ordering the light was a great step towards quality detailing.

I went to garage now to see what's waiting for me this weekend, and used my light (very similar to Flex Light you've got), so I took some pictures for you to take a look:

hope you enjoy:

(I will not place more pictures because this will worth a thread at AGO, coming up on sunday) - Full Correction + PBL coating application.

It's from a Volkswagen GOL, the most popular car in Brazil.


Can't wait to take a 50/50 on this spot...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/gol162.png (http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/73053)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/gol16.png (http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/73052)

I'll use the Flex 3401 and Menzerna polishes.

To illustrate what we've talked earlier, I'm thinking of a test spot using a white polishing pad and SF4000 (a finishing polish). Although I know it may be too mild because swirls looks bad, those car paints (particularly black) have tendency to be soft enough.

No way I would start testing a finishing pad and a finishing polish to take me where I want in this case, (even not being 100% certain before testing, it's veeeery unlikely).

So this is the least abrasive method I believe that may tackle the job, but I'm unsure. From there, that would be:

If needed just a bit more, step up to PF2500 (medium polish) on same pad. For more than a bit step up, FG400 (compound) on same pad. For huge step up, FG400 on Orange (Hybrid) cutting pad.

Then, I'll decide (based on correction outcome) how I'll finish down from there.

If it was an older car (this is 2013), with oxidation and some other heavy defects, maybe I would think of that 'needs to compound just by looking at it'. See?

But I'll only know if paint is soft, if I need to polish or compound, after 'asking the paint' while doing a test spot.

Hope I've helped.

Kind Regards.

[Panzer]

You have helped. Good luck this weekend. I'll look for the post.


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