The benefits of ONR

[Paul A.]

I picked up a couple of neighbors as new detail customers and they like the adjacency. They're both busy families and have constant needs to run out with the vehicle they've given to me for the day. Errands and kid shuttles etc. Break up my routine and i don't like to be interrupted once i've started but i offer to those customers "hey, if you need it during the day for anything just take it and i'll continue when you get back". They like that capability.

Enter ONR. Wifey comes walking over with a quick need to run up to the grocery store or to pick up a kid who called early needing a ride whatever. No problem. She takes the keys and off she goes. She returns maybe a half hour or hour later, pulls back in and walks home. I have a covered bucket of ONR ready to simply clean off any road grime from her quick trip, pick up right where i left off and have simply lost the hour she took it
and the 5 minutes it took me to clean it back up.

I also love ONR for removing any M105 "splatter" i inevitably get from harder paints that may need a higher RPM on my circular!

LOVE that ONR!

[tpr1634]

Good stuff for sure.:buffing:

[Paul A.]

Yes, absolutely. And i bought it at first just for the quick wash capability for my own car and have found so many more applications for it.

[jetta3guy8913]

How dirty can a car be to use ONR safely without scratching it? Is it one of those things where if you have to ask it's too dirty?

[zerix]

How dirty can a car be to use ONR safely without scratching it? Is it one of those things where if you have to ask it's too dirty?

It can be quite dirty, it's recommended that you pre-spray the area however to loosen up the dirt.

Here's a good video

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15cMHR0a0Ok]How to: Washing with ONR (Optimum No-Rinse) in winter (or anywhere/anytime) - YouTube[/video]

[spiralout462]

How dirty can a car be to use ONR safely without scratching it? Is it one of those things where if you have to ask it's too dirty?


That's the way I feel. However, it really depends on the paint color and softness and your expectations and technique of course.

[allenk4]

If anyone is going to do another ONR wash video, please do it on a black car that has been polished within an inch of it's life so we can prove that this technique will not instill defects.

[cleanmycorolla]

If anyone is going to do another ONR wash video, please do it on a black car that has been polished within an inch of it's life so we can prove that this technique will not instill defects.

That wouldn't prove much though. One could have soft paint, easily marred by anything. That's not ONR fault.

[swanicyouth]

If anyone is going to do another ONR wash video, please do it on a black car that has been polished within an inch of it's life so we can prove that this technique will not instill defects.

I don't have a video or anything, but I've found rinseless washes will mar my black BMW ever so slightly. Now this is marring that only the pickiest person will notice - the type you can only see in gas station lights at night.

So, I don't use rinseless washes on that car.

[PiPUK]

That's the way I feel. However, it really depends on the paint color and softness and your expectations and technique of course.

My feeling is that waterless/rinseless products are over sold on their ability to safely deal with dirt. Yes, they can loosen significant amounts and yes, they can remove the dirt when you wipe. But so can dawn diluted in a bucket. What exactly is in ONR, I do not know but many products in this class really achieve the 'safely' bit with lubrication and reducing drag on the surface, but there are limits. In my view, if you wipe you finger through the pre-sprayed area and can feel any sensation of 'grit', you should not expect the method not to inflict some level of marring on the paint. If you think about it, this should be common sense. What does 'dirt' look like if you make it lots bigger? A stone. If you soak your microfibre in ONR and put some stones on it, it is going to damage the paint and ONR ain't going to stop that happening. Of course this is not reality but it is a thought experiment that should tell you that somewhere between a zero-sized dirt particle and a stone, ONR (or similar) won't be able to help. Another way to think about it is that soiling on the microfibre effectively turns it into sandpaper, if it if fine enough and the lubrication good enough, it won't really do anything but it is unavoidable that when the grit becomes coarser, eventually the lubrication won't be enough to stop the sharp edges to start contacting the surface...

[litngboltz]

My feeling is that waterless/rinseless products are over sold on their ability to safely deal with dirt. Yes, they can loosen significant amounts and yes, they can remove the dirt when you wipe. But so can dawn diluted in a bucket. What exactly is in ONR, I do not know but many products in this class really achieve the 'safely' bit with lubrication and reducing drag on the surface, but there are limits. In my view, if you wipe you finger through the pre-sprayed area and can feel any sensation of 'grit', you should not expect the method not to inflict some level of marring on the paint. If you think about it, this should be common sense. What does 'dirt' look like if you make it lots bigger? A stone. If you soak your microfibre in ONR and put some stones on it, it is going to damage the paint and ONR ain't going to stop that happening. Of course this is not reality but it is a thought experiment that should tell you that somewhere between a zero-sized dirt particle and a stone, ONR (or similar) won't be able to help. Another way to think about it is that soiling on the microfibre effectively turns it into sandpaper, if it if fine enough and the lubrication good enough, it won't really do anything but it is unavoidable that when the grit becomes coarser, eventually the lubrication won't be enough to stop the sharp edges to start contacting the surface...

I like ONR and use it often, within limits, but I just want to say that your posts are awesome PiPUK! Always very informative and understandable.

[AuroraDetailing]

How is soap and water much different? No matter how much lubrication there is for the dirt, there will ALWAYS be some level of friction with wiping it off, or else the dirt would literally just slide right of the paint, which we know doesn't happen. I trust a microfiber just as much as any wash sponge to not rub dirt particles into the paint. The most important thing to an ONR is to wipe in snake patterns. If you are rubbing back and forth over the same spot, of course you are going to rub in the dirt particles trapped in the towel. Keep the towel moving in one direction, make a turn, and go back the other way.

Another thing I would mention is whatever sponge or mitt you would use to wash the car is probably the same sponge or mitt used to do the entire vehicle, which has the chance to collect dirt particles from the entire vehicle, and rinsing it in a bucket isn't going to remove every last bit of dirt. I use multiple microfiber towels, with switching and folding to clean sides, so I get a new, clean surface to wipe with pretty often.

[PiPUK]

I like ONR and use it often, within limits, but I just want to say that your posts are awesome PiPUK! Always very informative and understandable.

I appreciate your kind words.


How is soap and water much different? No matter how much lubrication there is for the dirt, there will ALWAYS be some level of friction with wiping it off, or else the dirt would literally just slide right of the paint, which we know doesn't happen. I trust a microfiber just as much as any wash sponge to not rub dirt particles into the paint. The most important thing to an ONR is to wipe in snake patterns. If you are rubbing back and forth over the same spot, of course you are going to rub in the dirt particles trapped in the towel. Keep the towel moving in one direction, make a turn, and go back the other way.

Another thing I would mention is whatever sponge or mitt you would use to wash the car is probably the same sponge or mitt used to do the entire vehicle, which has the chance to collect dirt particles from the entire vehicle, and rinsing it in a bucket isn't going to remove every last bit of dirt. I use multiple microfiber towels, with switching and folding to clean sides, so I get a new, clean surface to wipe with pretty often.

Our experience has been that we have been working on a whole host of products in this area. We have tested a variety of our own formulations and mixed in some industry leaders and the overwhelming message is that there are indeed bad products but it is very hard to go further than that. Soapy water, in our blind test, did not actually fall into the 'bad' category. I think your second paragraph really sums up our feelings on the topic - it is more about the wash medium than the wash solution. The more cloths you use, the less the chance of causing damage.

I am sure there are those who will disagree and believe that some products really do stand out as better but we couldn't agree on them through blind testing. Ultimately, like you say, you have soiling and pressure from a cloth. The two things you can do to be safer are to have less soil on the cloth (use lots of them) or to apply less pressure (which is a very hard thing to quantify to a user).

[HateSwirls]

I love the fact that using a RW or WW keeps water from going down in places where we can't dry, helps keep parts from rusting.

It's quick.
Can clean you car even if it's cold outside.
Most of them have some degree of wax so it adds a little protection each time I use it.
No rushing in trying to dry your car after a full wash, I can stop and take a call if I need to.

That's just a few benefits for me.

[PiPUK]

Can clean you car even if it's cold outside.


Have you ever been skiing and fallen without any gloves on? Can really hurt when you get a whole lot of small ice particles abrading your skin. If it is cold enough to form ice crystals when you work with RW/WW, then you are pressing abrasive ice crystals against the paint when you wipe. If it is too cold for a traditional wash, it is almost certainly cold enough that RW/WW will be doing more damage than they should.