RUPES should make some videos on correcting curved panels...

[SR99]

I wonder how many sales RUPES have lost because of the many online comments about having issues with curved panels, and people decide they don't want to deal with that and they buy another machine.

They should make a video starting with a new user of a RUPES 21 or 15 polishing a concave curved panel, with the backing plate marked so you can see the rotations stop.

Then have the RUPES person step in and show the different technique on that panel so the rotations don't stop, and then let the new user adjust their technique to show they can make it work.

It would be maybe a 5-10 minute video, and I guess it doesn't need to be done by RUPES. Seems there's an obvious need for it.

[runrun411]

Hopefully Mike will weigh in on this thread. I'm sure he would have a good technique on using the 15 or 21 on curved panels.

[swanicyouth]

Dunno. I have a 15 and really don't see this much as an issue. Maybe a 21 with a 5" BP has this issue, but the machine was never designed to be used this way. Yes the machine can stop spinning for an instant, but so can a lot of DAs.

If your having an issue, maybe get a Mini and use a smaller pad. The 6" pad face may be too big for the area???

[Tato]

Nice topic.

In my opinion OP, you're only looking at 'one side of the coin'. I've decided for the Flex (to buy first) mainly because it's 1 machine that paired with larger or smaller pads (changeable backing plate to use even 4" pads) will handle (mostly) any entire car by itself.

I've not had any issues regarding machine bog down or lost of rotation with my actual G220v2 DA, even reading many cases relating lack of power and pad rotation on this machine. I've started using 6.5" pads, and even with them, pad rotation under pressure was never an issue.

I mean, the technique to maintain pad rotation basically lies in positioning the polisher to get the pad flattest you can on the surface, and for many curves you have to position it properly, some times contortion yourself, crank up on speed, but you can do it!

Another advantage I've seen on Rupes system is that pressure is not a very determinant factor, like on smaller throw DAs. With that in mind, maintain proper pad rotation may be less of an issue. Product quantity for proper surface lubrication maybe always in account when having pad behaving less than optimum way.

What I mean, if I only get a Rupes 21 (instead of the Flex), how would I correct side mirrors, even with a 5" backing plate but a 21mm throw? Ah, they have the mini Rupes for that, and (hey!) it's an awesome machine!

I've talked about it in some other topic, if someone has the whole Rupes line of machines (21, 15, 12, mini, etc) it's fair that guy won't need other brand / size machines / backing plates.

I believe we're reading many reviews from 'New to DA' users that acquired the 'new kid on the block' and are relating the same lack of rotation I've read on G220v2 some time ago, but now about the Rupes.

One good thing about INTERNET is that we can read EVERYTHING but trust only what our EDUCATION allows. I admit, reading Rupes can stop on curved panels never went into account for me.

It's like: 'So you're saying Paul Dalton is struggling on curved panels with his Rupes?' lol, Come on!

Another thing I've talked earlier was regarding User's Fault. I've related my fault using some polish that were dusting and a pain to wipe off. Was the polish a lame? Absolutely not, the flaws were entirely my fault.

It's easy for one to come at a forum and flame any product or brand. The same way it's difficult for one to educate himself (a lot), and get enough time of 'HANDS-ON' experience before blaming a product or brand instead of himself.

I've decided for the Flex mainly because I can only handle 1 at a time, and I wanted 1 machine to 'do it all'.

My G220v2 worked very nice until I had to start 'abusing' it. Now I have to submit it to HEAVY and FAST work (against the clock), and this was not what the machine was intended for.

If I were to stay at weekend warrior category, maybe I wouldn't even exchange my Meg's DA.

Now that I have more work to do, I've decided on the Flex FIRST, but that means the Rupes will come when I find the NEED for it.

By the way, if someone at Rupes will be reading this, please, contact me and I will spin your pads on any panel, record on video and place here.

I just won't promise I'll correct side mirrors with 21mm throw and 7" pads!

Thanks for reading,

Kind Regards.

[KillaCam]

Why does Rupes need to make a video? A lot of DAs have the same problem.

[parttimer]

Man, I have never seen this issue with my GG or harbor freight cheap-o untis. I have seen it on my Rupes 21 with the stock plate and 5.5" plate, both with the washer mod. I did a detail day with Mike on a Thursday night and both discussed how the Rupes does not perform well on curved panels. So I dunno how you guys get your rupes units to work on curved panels when Mike, myself and many other have issues.

[SR99]

I was just making an observation about all the threads where this comes up, on many different forums not just here, and where people have hesitated to buy the RUPES large throw machines because of it.

If you as a manufacturer see people not buying your product due to a fixable technique issue, it seems you'd want to address that. Making a video as I describe would cost next to nothing, so the ROI would be huge.

The large throw magnifies the issue compared to other, small throw DAs, so it's not the same extent of problem as other DAs. Softer foam, non-RUPES pads may magnify the issue too, compared to the stiffer less compressible RUPES foam pads but that's hard to zero in on.

I'm sure Mike has a huge backlog of things to do and I wasn't suggesting Mike should put this at the top of the queue and do a video.

[Dr_Pain]

I'm subbing because I would like to see other people's technique in the matter.

I do have a Rupes 21 and love it. I've developed a couple of minor adjustments to my technique to deal with the issue of curved surfaces. It does tend to be a constant fight to adjust the technique but I would not trade in my Rupes just for that. I do like the forced rotation but it does have its drawback as well

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Forced rotation come in BIG TIME for me as far as anything that protrudes or isn't flat. It's great that I have both the 3401 and Rupes!

As far as pressure, you don't have to use a lot with the 3401 as well. Only with the 8mm traditional DA's is when you have to use significant pressure.

[FUNX650]

Hopefully Mike will weigh in on this thread. I'm sure he would have a good technique on using the 15 or 21 on curved panels.

I'm sure Mike has a huge backlog of things to do and I wasn't suggesting Mike should put this at the top of the queue and do a video.
Here's one example of an article/video where Mr. Phillips buffs curved panels with a couple of RUPES polishers.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/60921-rupes-polisher-time-lapse-video-1955-ford-crown-victoria.html


Bob

[SR99]

Thanks Bob, and I guess the point I was making isn't whether curved panels can be corrected with the RUPES. They can. The point(s) are that

1) various people undeniably have problems with this and
2) it has discouraged purchases for some, and
3) to help adjust a person's technique, you have to first see what they are doing wrong as far as technique and machine position, then show them how it can be done on that same panel, and have them demonstrate that they learned how to fix it. You have to be able to definitively see the pad rotations stop too.

On that point, if people do not have a prominant mark on the backing plate, you cannot tell if the pad is rotating on the RUPES 21. With the pad orbiting at several thousand OPM and the large throw, the pad is just a big blur and gives the appearance of rotation when it is not. Human eyes cannot detect pad rotation within all that high speed blur, and there isn't much difference between eyes on this point.

Maybe it's a bit different for the 15 with slightly smaller throw, but I only have the 21 to go by, and the roughly 7/8 of an inch circular orbits at high OPM give the appearance of pad rotation even when it's not. Once you mark the pad you can see this.

If you don't have a mark on your RUPES 21 backing plate and you think you've never seen the pad stop spinning on a concave curve where different sides of the pad are compressed to different degrees, mark it and you'll be amazed. If you don't want to put a permanent mark on your backing plate for whatever reason, just try it with a sticker or a small piece of tape.

An open question is whether the RUPES 21 with its large 7/8" circular orbits will correct even without rotation. I have a feeling it will, so these rotation discussions may be a moot point anyway. A 7/8 inch circular orbit is about what you'd be doing if you tried to correct some scratches using a hand applicator pad, but with the RUPES 21 and no rotation, you are getting several thousand of those orbits for every hundred or so that you do by hand per minute, so it would be a lot faster.

[Rsurfer]

I wonder how many sales RUPES have lost because of the many online comments about having issues with curved panels, and people decide they don't want to deal with that and they buy another machine.

They should make a video starting with a new user of a RUPES 21 or 15 polishing a concave curved panel, with the backing plate marked so you can see the rotations stop.

Then have the RUPES person step in and show the different technique on that panel so the rotations don't stop, and then let the new user adjust their technique to show they can make it work.

It would be maybe a 5-10 minute video, and I guess it doesn't need to be done by RUPES. Seems there's an obvious need for it.

Get a Mini, problem solved.

[parttimer]

Mike posted this in the time lapse segment: I did find that when buffing a curved panel, either concave or convex, the uneven pressure applied to the face of the pad will slow down and even stop pad rotation. The key is to focus on the panel and keep the pad as flat as possible to the surface.

I used the duetto with Rupes pads and experienced the same slow/stoppage on his pickup. It is a design issue as all their devices suffer from it.

[Harry Da Hamster]

Convex curves are not a problem for the Rupes. It's the concave panels where it has a problem, especially a multi-axis concave panel like the ones on my Porsche Cayenne. Picture below is not my vehicle, just pulled from a quick google search to illustrate the problem area on the lower half of the doors. D pillar and just above the headlight are also problem areas. A Rupes 21ES and 75E would be great. But for me, i might polish a car once every 1 or 2 months, and i live in an apartment, i don't want/need/have the space/have the budget for two high end polishers. So for me, i prefer the Flex 3401.

[TundraPower]

I must be the only one that doesn't have this problem. I have the 21, 15, Duetto, and Mini and none of them have issues on curved panels. I polish very slowly with very little pressure though.

:dunno: