Improper use of a rotary

[Hoytman]

Was looking at another thread which mentioned, "improper use of a rotary", and it reminded me of how many other threads that I've actually seen those same words written.

I couldn't help but wonder: What do these folks specifically mean, and/or refer to, when they write about damage caused by "improper use of a rotary"?

We can see damage that was done and call it improper use, but it's another story to know specifically how the improper use occured without being there and seeing what the person behind the machine was doing.

In my little ol' mind anyone can look and see holograms and burned paint and say that it was from improper use of a rotary. So how do we define improper use?


Do we define improper use as;

bad technique soley

too much rotational speed
too slow arm movement
too fast arm movement
tilting the polisher, or not keeping it flat

poor pad choice
poor product choice...and/or...aka...wrong abrasive technology
all of the above
In my mind when someone says that defects on a certain vehicle were caused by improper use of a rotary I tend to think about it as bad technique alone. I realize many factors, or all, could come into play and they're bulleted above, yet when I see someone write "improper use of a rotary" my mind first thinks about bad technique.

When you see defects caused by a rotary, or the person using it, what do you first think of? In other words, what are your first thoughts when you see written in a thread the words, "improper use of a rotary"? What comes to your mind?

[CM8 6MT]

Poorly trained, and or insufficient trainning with the machine.

[Hoytman]

I also can't help but wonder how many people there are out there that have been using a rotary for a long time, are quite good in their technique but because they don't keep up with newer technology products they may not produce the results that they could. They may not even know that changing the action of a machine, switching to a Dual Action polisher, can help their work become better.

This thread isn't about knowing if you can finish properly or not with a rotary. We have enough of those threads. I just want to know what comes to your mind when you see defects like holograms and how you percieve "improper use".

[AutowerxDetailing]

Holograms glisten in my city. I'm pretty sure every "volume" and "discount" detail shop in town wheels each car with a high speed rotary. I presume the techs doing the damage simply don't know how badly they are failing or are unaware due to not inspecting the results correctly (high filling products & no wipe downs). Why people are willing to pay money to have their swirls replaced with buffer holograms... this I will never understand. Oh well, job security.

I did recently hear that the local MB dealers are switching to Rupes machines. It seems the detailing technology discussions prevalent on internet forums may finally be trickling down to the production world.

[RaskyR1]

IMO the issue is most often a result of pad/polish choice and/or doing too large of a jumps in aggressiveness between steps. Technique, mainly tilting of the pad and polisher speed would probably be the next most contributing factors.

Just my $.02 though.

(been using the rotary for 23+ years now)

[Andr3wilson]

Holograms glisten in my city. I'm pretty sure every "volume" and "discount" detail shop in town wheels each car with a high speed rotary. I presume the techs doing the damage simply don't know how badly they are failing or are unaware due to not inspecting the results correctly (high filling products & no wipe downs). Why people are willing to pay money to have their swirls replaced with buffer holograms... this I will never understand. Oh well, job security.

I did recently hear that the local MB dealers are switching to Rupes machines. It seems the detailing technology discussions prevalent on internet forums may finally be trickling down to the production world.

LOL what about when the guy uses the dirtiest, oldest rag he can find to buff away the residue. Holograms with free swirls.

[FUNX650]

I. Co-ordination/Use of Both Hands (also technique?)

With the rotary "movement":
-When you move the machine to the right, it will move upwards.
-When you move it to the left, it will move downwards.

Therefore, IMHO:
Practice is required to get these movements correctly aligned; smooth---rhythmic.

II. Use of Too Much Product On Pad/Paint
-Should be self-explanatory


III. Machine Lacks a "Feather Start"
-Available on some of today's models.
-Wish I had it back in the early sixties


IV. Abrasive Technology
-Can't use "rocks in the bottle" on modern BC/CC paint systems
-As you mentioned Bill: Gotta keep up with "technological" advances.
-With some of the technological advances in not only abrasives, but pads, auto-paints (CC's), etc....
DA's can often be used for some corrections, in lieu of rotaries:


V. A Conclusion
-In today's era of "more modern paint correction" w/tools, products, etc. ...
Surely this question can then often be begged:
Why did they use a rotary in the first place!!

:)

Bob

[Kaban]

I did recently hear that the local MB dealers are switching to Rupes machines. It seems the detailing technology discussions prevalent on internet forums may finally be trickling down to the production world.

I doubt it. A Rupes costs 3X-4X what a cheap rotary would cost that is used by these production type shops.

A rotary with a wool is still going to be alot faster than a Rupes and speed is one of the main objectives of these shops. The faster they do a car, the more cars they can do that day, and the more money they make. I am pretty sure none of them actually inspect anything or do test spots and look for effective pad/polish combos as that would require too much time.

[ken tuep]

I usually think of improper use being moreso bad techniques. Usually its a poor choice of pads and products which lead to a poor finish.

I've seen many detailers/ bodyshops that always start with wool cutting pad and liquid rocks,(compound used for cutting 1200-1500 grit scratches) then go straight to a glaze on a soft foam pad to finish, with no refining polish in between.

I have been there, and didn't know any better, until I was taught better. I thought I was doing a great job. The cars were shiny, and looked good(shine wise).

I'd also like to point out that fresh paint like in a bodyshop environment is super soft when its cut and buffed. Usually only hours old when beginning the process. I'd compare it to a soft jet black on Toyota/ BMW vehicles I have done. Most people here know how difficult the super soft paints can be to work with a super fine polish, and a da polisher. So throw the wrong pad, product, and techniques at it, and its bound for disaster.


I think there should be a standardized (nationwide) training program in bodyshops, to teach proper technique when it comes to automotive paint refinishing. I'm sure it gets taught to a certain degree, but not to the extent that most here take it.

Just my thoughts on the situation.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AG Online

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Bill,

Most of the time when I'm describing holograms inflicted by a rotary buffer, as a kind and gentle way of describing the cause I use the exact words,

Improper use of a rotary buffer


By describing the hologram results like this it's my attempt to give the person responsible the benefit of the doubt that they were not intentionally hacking up the paint on someone's car but that's either the best they can do because of their limited knowledge and skill level or because they are under the authority of someone else and quality work is out of their control.


I very carefully worded the below article so as to be sensitive to others and not hurt anyone's feelings when talking about the quality of work they put out.


The story of 3 H's - Horrendous, Horror Story and Hack Detailers... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/28142-story-3-h-s-horrendous-horror-story-hack-detailers.html)




:)

[Hoytman]

What prompted me to start this thread was this thread... http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/75597-speedfreak-detailed-cayman-s-black-edition-xpel-ppf-detail.html ...and for no particular reason when this poster mentioned improper use of a rotary I got to thinking about it.